The Joy of Podcasting: Connecting and Learning with Annette Richmond

The Joy of Podcasting: Connecting and Learning

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Annette Richmond 0:53

If I'm thinking today, well I'm gonna have a podcast and what am I gonna do? Maybe just start recording on your phone. And then record and see how it goes. And if you're like enjoying it and you're getting it going, then maybe you want to upgrade and get a better microphone or something like because you can get a decent microphone that's not that expensive. You know, maybe you want to do that. And then maybe you're going along and you think, oh, you know, maybe I'll try that video thing that I've heard other people talking about. So, you know, again, it's like with everything, even the equipment that I buy. You know, I buy inexpensive, good equipment, and then I upgrade.

Intro 1:31

Annette started her career as a magazine writer, a medium where the work lives on the page and the person behind it stays invisible. She built that invisibility into a comfort zone, and then she blew it up. Today she coaches professionals, entrepreneurs, and communications teams through the specific fears that keep talented people off camera. The awkwardness, the self-consciousness, the paralysis of figuring out

Demystifying Podcasting: The Importance of Authenticity

Intro 1:56

what to say. Her approach to video confidence is not intuitive. It is structured, it is repeatable, and it was built by someone who once was exactly where her clients are. Host of the Content Marketing School podcast with over 100 episodes, she brings a skill set that merges business professionalism with continuity to make a podcast last. She now operates under the Black Dog Marketing Strategies brand, helping entrepreneurs and business owners build visibility and grow their businesses through content, including LinkedIn, live shows, and yes, podcasting. What makes Annette relevant to this conversation is not her credentials. It is the fact that she started podcasting from inside a full professional life, figured out what it could actually do for her work, and kept building. She knows the business case, she has lived it. Let's dive deeper into the why of starting a podcast.

Gabe Leal 2:54

Annette, first of all, thank you for joining me. I do appreciate taking the time to have this conversation with me. I want to start out with the anchor question that I asked all of my guests who come on here who've started the process of doing interviews like this. Why should you do a podcast?

Annette Richmond 3:13

Oh my gosh, there are so many, so many reasons. So one of the things that I I love about it the most is that I get to meet really interesting people. You know, I find people who are interesting, who know things that I would like to that I think my audience would also benefit from. So I have them come on my podcast and you know, I get to learn from them as well as my audience. So I I have to say that that's probably one of my most favorite things.

Gabe Leal 3:41

I I like that idea, right? That you get to again acquire knowledge. Technically for free through a conversation.

Annette Richmond 3:49

Yes, yes, it is, you know, and I am totally up front with my guests when I talk to them and like I I am so eager to learn from you myself. And, you know, it it it really gives you the opportunity to have those conversations because my style, as I'm sure your style is very conversational. It's not like, okay, question one, answer,

Building a Sustainable Podcast: Systems and Accountability

Annette Richmond 4:08

question two, answer. It's very much you kind of go where the conversation goes.

Gabe Leal 4:13

Yes. And that kind of leads into something that I personally try to am trying to help demystify when it comes to creating podcasts, because a lot of creators, and then you do, you put in the work, you do the research, you get everything done. When you got into doing this, you started it as a friend who told you they were doing one, and you said, why not? So, you know, I want to sit with you about that because it's again, it's the opposite what they tell you in the industry for those who want to get started in creating a podcast. You know, they wanted to have this structure, you got to have everything planned out and and the you got to have a blueprint before you even hit go and hit record.

Annette Richmond 4:50

So, you know, I think that's what holds a lot of people back from doing many, many things is they spend so much time getting ready and preparing and make sure that everything's just right and the right equipment. And, you know, the only way to learn is by doing it. That that's what I think. And I I feel that you find your own style. You know, people that guests on my show find it very relaxed and fun, and the time flies by. And, you know, it's that's what I love about having people on my show when they tell me how much they've enjoyed it and they want to come back.

Gabe Leal 5:25

Yes, right. And that goes back to um the first few episodes that you did. What did it feel like to produce with no roadmap, no audience? And then, you know, and not having an expectation that was like very weighted when it comes to like having say a show that you've already done a hundred episodes in.

Annette Richmond 5:43

So, you know, it's hard for me to even really remember. I told you I started podcasting back in 2020 during the pandemic. You know, I like I had no business, I had nothing to do, and I was looking around. And I I come from sort of an English media background. I was a magazine writer in a former life, et cetera. And I saw a friend of mine had a podcast, and I'm like, you know, that that sounds interesting. How do you do that? And she's like, Well, you know, I kind of read from my blog, which I think is so funny. And I thought, well, okay, I I could do that. So I really did not have a lot of, you know, expectations going into it, what it was going to be like. It was, it was kind of more like this sounds like it might be fun, might be interesting, and let me give it a give it a shot. Of course, you can't just read from a blog, but you get the idea.

Gabe Leal 6:30

Yeah.

Vetting Guests: Ensuring Quality Conversations

Gabe Leal 6:31

Right. There's a lot more that actually has to go.

Annette Richmond 6:34

Yeah, a little bit. A little bit.

Gabe Leal 6:36

A little bit.

Annette Richmond 6:36

So I would say it's learning from others. You know, I have a the podcast I currently have. Um, it's my second podcast. And, you know, obviously I learned from doing over half hundred episodes on one podcast. I decide to start one with a different shift, different topic shift, I should say. And um, I started listening to other podcasts, podcasts about podcasting. And I learned I learned from them. I learned, you know, a couple of things. The idea that, you know, if you're if you're only the host, then you're not the expert. And that it might be for me, it turned out it was better to have a mix. So my podcast is a mix of solo, me talk, you know, me giving advice and also having, you know, off, of course, smart guests come, you know, on my show. But I I think it's also going to places started, although, and I think we talked maybe a little bit about this. The idea, is this going to be video? Is it going to be audio? And while I think most people still listen to their podcasts on audio, I mean, I know I do. I listen to most podcasts like in the shower or in my car or while I'm cooking or something. And but more and more people are recording on video. So what I shifted a while ago was uh recording my audio podcasts on video so that I can use the clips, et cetera, et cetera. And that kind of I think ties into the idea of process of what you're talking about. Even if you're using the audio only, you create other things, you know. So I hope that answers the question.

Gabe Leal 8:12

Why do a podcast? Why should you sit down and say, I want to create a podcast and put myself out into the world?

Annette Richmond 8:20

Well, I think it's probably different for everyone. For me, it's a chance I like to write, but it's more fun to speak and it can often be easier to speak. It's kind of like doing video. It's easier to record a quick video than to write a blog post. And, you know, I I like the idea of sharing what I know. My podcast is about a topic that I do myself, and I am recording and sharing for me, the former me. They say the year from like me from two, three years ago. And so I I like sharing, I like helping people. I'm always been kind of a teacher at heart. So that's part of it. And again, it's the meeting other people. And I have to say, while it is work, and uh we kind of mentioned this,

The Art of Conversation: Preparing for Interviews

Annette Richmond 9:06

yes, it's a lot of fun too. It can be a lot of fun. You know, you do have to commit to it, you do have to realize that um, you know, it is work. It's not just you, you know, put your microphone on and you just start talking. You do have to have some kind of an idea of what you're gonna be talking about.

Gabe Leal 9:25

The new podcasters listening in. How do you build a system that that builds accountability and sustainability to create? Because you can go out into the podcasting sphere, you can go type it into Spotify, Apple, and you'll see 10 uh hundreds of podcasts, and you'll see that they have one or two episodes, and that's it.

Annette Richmond 9:43

Oh, yeah.

Gabe Leal 9:44

So they've they you know, they hit a wall for whatever reason, it just didn't go beyond those few episodes. So, what has it been that helps you sustain that consistency and constantly creating uh episode uh your podcast episodes?

Annette Richmond 9:57

I would say the biggest part is learning. So while I don't think that you need to sit and think and plan your podcast for six months, I think it is good to learn and think about what your podcast is going to be. Is it just gonna be you? Are you gonna have guests? Are you gonna do video? Are you gonna do audio? And what type of platform, which is the platform that might be most sustainable for you? I use a platform that's very simple. It's a really good beginner platform and it makes it easy to get my podcast on a lot of directories. So I'm sorry. So I I think I think that um that's something that's important that maybe people don't think about. If you're only on two directories, it's unlikely a lot of people are gonna hear you. So you want to be everywhere. So I think that you need to just sort of plot out the basics of sort of maybe the logistics of how is this going to work? What's it gonna be about, you know, where am I gonna host it and that. And and then I would say it's just consistently learning from others. You know, I'm excited to be on this podcast. I will be listening to this podcast so that I can learn from others because I really do believe that's how we all learn. You know, we learn from each other.

Gabe Leal 11:07

Yes, and that's what I wanted to tap into was just the acquired knowledge from other creators because it's the experience, it's the bumps, the bruises, the the mistakes, the triumphs that really help you figure out your path if you want to continue to create a podcast. So the next thing I want to go into, and it's something you shared too, you have a non-negotiable for if guests who show up with it and don't have a sales pitch. So, why do you think it's good for beginning podcasters to implement, say, a vetting system if they're gonna have a show where they're gonna bring on guests? My vetting system was this. I made it pretty simple for me, but this is my standard was it I needed to have somebody who was consistent. I looked like 50 episodes. 50 episodes speaks to me that you've put in time, work, and consistency in being able to create. That's not that doesn't just happen overnight. You just don't produce 50 episodes and I'm done. It's it's the work, it's the

Creating a Production System: From Audio to Video

Gabe Leal 12:02

elongated time invested in what you're doing and how you reach out to people. So why is it important for, at least in your opinion, to to implement, say, a vetting system if you're gonna have guests on to do for your interviews?

Annette Richmond 12:14

Well, because you don't you don't want to be surprised. And, you know, one of the things that is very clear to me that I I mentioned to my guests, and that is something that I even, you know, we chat a little bit briefly with a guest before we start recording or going live is you know, the guidelines that you're not gonna be selling from from the podcast. And and I do that really for two reasons. One, because I I want the podcast to be, you know, educational and informative. And also the fact that if I start saying like, oh, Gabe, now I got this special going and blah, blah, blah. By the time this airs, it may be over. So there is that, you know, that factor. Plus, that of course, you know, people listening to a podcast, they're not listening to hear anybody's sales spit. So that is a non-negotiable for me. I have to say, most of the people that I have on my podcast, I I know them. And I do, uh if it's somebody I don't know, I try to meet with them briefly or at least watch them on another podcast or another show, because you know, you you never ever really know what what somebody's gonna be like. And you you want to make sure, well, it's also good if they if we click. I mean, I know that may sound trivial, but I think if you're clicking, you know, with with the guests, that that is certainly, certainly helpful if you have someone you know is gonna be, you know, chatting when you ask them a question, not go, well, yes, or I know, or something you know, something that there's gonna be some conversation. You know, and it's always easier, you know, with someone you know. But again, um, something that you said earlier about, you know, when you plan everything ahead of time, I think it can lead to something where somebody feels like they're gonna be in the hot seat or or something like that. And so as a former magazine writer, I always come with questions. I have like five questions, but the conversation goes where it goes. Yes. And that I think that's what listeners appreciate as well.

Gabe Leal 14:11

Yeah, and I and I think it's good to have a foundation for you to to rely on to say, okay, I have something just in case the conversation starts not flowing, right? Again, this is why I leaned into host, not so much guest, because the host is going to you have a different perspective because you know what it's like to sit behind the other end and ask the questions and wait and to listen and like sit there and understand

Embracing the Messiness: The Journey of Podcasting

Gabe Leal 14:40

that sometimes it's harder as the host than it is the guest because they're just answering the questions and then they're done. Whereas a host, you not only have you're not only doing it from the perspective of asking the questions, but then you're also asking it from the perspective of my work build and what I have to do and what do I really want to acquire from this conversation.

Annette Richmond 14:59

So actually, I I would, you know, like to bring up something with you if I can. The idea of before you have a guest on your show to send them questions or not send them questions, because that has come up and I've I've tried it both ways, questions, not questions. And currently uh I do not send questions. And so I'm curious about maybe your your thoughts about that or or why or I love that you're putting that you're putting the host head up. Yeah, I'm I'm just you know, I'm curious because I, you know, I would say that I I tried it both ways. I never sent questions, and then uh I don't know, I I heard somebody say, Well, you should send questions, you get a more robust interview. And I said, Okay, I'll try that because you got to try new things, right? And so I started sending questions. And then I had people that I knew knew their stuff, and I'd ask them a question and they'd say, Well, you know, I really think that the reason is, and they're looking, and I could see they were reading and they think that people don't know. And so because of that, and because I had people come on my show and say, uh, and I chat with them, you know, briefly beforehand and say, Well, I'm gonna mention this. Oh no, I didn't prepare for that. So that is that that's how I do it. I think it's obviously individual, but I'm just curious what your take is on that.

Gabe Leal 16:12

So for me, uh, it's pretty simple. I try to just maintain uh a couple questions that apply to their journey because um I I think I'm some I'm somebody who's like if I I have at least an idea of where this topic could go, I can formulate where it is. And like I'm somebody who's again free-flowing when it comes to having conversations. It's okay to have a roadmap, it's okay to have you know, um, a bit of a navig. It's like I tell people like this it's like you setting a destination in your GPS, right? It's gonna tell you where to go. But guess what? If you want to stop at Starbucks on a way, you can put it into your roadmap and it'll re-guide you, it'll redirect you to where you're gonna go. And for me, that's kind of what this is. It's just a roadmap, but it doesn't mean that's gonna be where my final destination is.

Annette Richmond 17:02

No, I I love that. So, so then you're not, you know, when you have a guest on your show, you're not sending them these are the questions I'm gonna ask you or anything like that.

Gabe Leal 17:09

No, I literally have just I have in my head a few foundation questions.

Finding Your Voice: The Evolution of a Podcaster

Gabe Leal 17:13

And the five foundation questions for this show are easy. Why start a podcast? Right, figure out your why. That's the first one. The second one is just then developing how do you create your podcast. And then I go to the next question was how do you find your guest or how do you build your subject content matter? Then the third is how do you I mean the last fourth is how do you distribute it? How do you get it out into the world? And then the last part for me is just how do you promote it? How do you get those are kind of like the five content pillars that I've wanted to build this show upon because I think those are the four I did this is what I did, and then I I did research for probably say two to three months where I was in constant podcast threats asking these questions, random questions. I knew the answer to them, but I wanted to see what others had to apply to it. And I found out and I said, Okay, now let me take all these questions and figure out and develop a system to bring on other podcasters and what to ask them. Because I knew here's what I did. I wanted to create a show. The idea for the show was to create something that was not only uh specific in niche, but then was also broad enough to have you know different aspects of it. The niche is of course podcasting. The broad part is that I get to speak to people from different genres, different niches of how they've built, and it still brings back how to develop ultimately a structure that will help a struggling or aspiring podcaster to decide to sit down and get behind a microphone and start recording. So that was the idea behind it, and that's why the the questions for me are just part of that journey. So I feel like I love it.

Annette Richmond 18:49

Yeah, sorry, sorry to to you know, sort of. Well, no, no, it's great. It's great.

Gabe Leal 18:53

So this is what Havia Huls on does.

Annette Richmond 18:55

So, you know, I I think it's also one of the things that's important is you have to be curious. I think if you're not curious, podcasting is probably not for you. Certainly not if you're going to be interviewing other people. You have to actually be interested in what they say. And and I think that that's what makes guests comfortable is if you are actually interested and you're not there, you know, checking boxes for for the for the interview with them.

Gabe Leal 19:22

Yeah. So this, and then it leads into the the next question where I wanted to go is so you have a production system in place where you do and you're recording through to to Riverside, and then you distribute it to Buzzsprout, to YouTube, and then Opeless. So uh how do you how do you describe for new podcasters who want to get started how to develop a system that works for them? Because that's probably also one of the hardest things that stops a lot of people from saying, Yeah, I can record, you can sit down and record. Anybody can record from their phone.

Celebrating Milestones: The Importance of Progress

Gabe Leal 19:54

It's probably absolutely easy. The problem is now how do you develop the workflow that's gonna be able to get you a product or uh, you know, just whatever you're trying to get out of creating a podcast in the first place.

Annette Richmond 20:07

You know, I think it's I think it's trial and error, you know, kind of what works for you. Um it's funny, I was just talking to someone yesterday, and she is planning um a podcast. She's gonna be starting a podcast. And one of the things she said to me is that, you know, I'm going to have to batch record. I am definitely gonna batch record. If I can't batch record, I'm not gonna do it because I feel like I have to have, you know, five episodes when I start, and then I have to have enough episodes sort of banked that I can have a one episode a week. And I was like, okay, to me, that sounds a little bit too structured for me. Now, you know, my system, as you mentioned, you know, I have ideas for for podcasts. I basically base my solo podcasts on things that I teach, things that people, questions people ask me. And my my interviews are, of course, are also based around, you know, the content, different areas. But again, I I think you have to just try what works for you. I recorded my podcast on audio for years, just me and my microphone, and that's great. And my pod my podcast is still it's hosted on a site at Bud Sprout that is audio only. So that's that's what it is. But then, as you mentioned, um, you know, promoting it can can be a challenge. So one of the things that I and then creating content in general is a massive challenge. So then I was actually at Podfest a couple of years ago and I heard somebody talking about creating, doing it on video and then having the clips. And that's when I was like, oh, okay, you know, that sort of clicked with me because I like video. So, you know, if you don't like video, maybe not for you. But but, you know, so that's when I started recording all of my episodes, even the solo ones, you know, on video, because then I have the clips that I can use. Riverside, the platform is fascinating. Fabulous with the transcripts and gives you a lot of things you can use. And, you know, so um I I think it's just trying, you know, you you find something that's gonna work for you in the beginning. Maybe it is just audio, maybe it is just picking up your phone and recording audio and then uploading it. And, you know, I really am am only familiar with Buzz Sprout because that's the only platform I've ever used, but that has, you know, audio enhancement and things like that. So, you know, uh, I mean I don't know. I I I think it's about starting where you are, you know. If I if I'm thinking today, well, I'm gonna have a podcast and what am I gonna do? Maybe just start recording on your phone and then record

Passion and Purpose: The Heart of Podcasting

Annette Richmond 22:39

and see how it goes. And if you're like enjoying it and you're getting it going, then maybe you want to upgrade and get a better microphone or something like because you can get a decent microphone that's not that expensive. You know, maybe you want to do that, and then maybe you're going along and you think, oh, you know, maybe I'll try that video thing that I've heard other people talking about. So, you know, again, it it's like with everything, even the equipment of the that I buy, you know, I buy inexpensive good equipment, and then I upgrade.

Gabe Leal 23:11

You know, absolutely. It's it's that that that's a process that most new podcasters struggle with because the thing is they see other hosts, they see other shows, and of course, there is an intimidation factor when you see somebody and they're like, Oh, I'm sitting behind, and I have they have four sure SM7Bs and they're all set up on tripods, and they're like they have the aesthetic to go along with it. And you don't ever see the the dirty, messy part where it was just them sitting with a a blue Yeti microphone in a very damp place and it didn't sound the best.

Annette Richmond 23:51

Yep, I got one.

Gabe Leal 23:54

Right. It's it's what you're seeing is the well-manicured part of a system that was built from the very beginning, from the ground up, and it took a while to get there. I like to like for people to understand that there is a part that you don't get to see from most podcasters, and that's what digging into the early parts of what their journey was like, because um I want people to understand it's okay to be messy.

Annette Richmond 24:13

Absolutely, you know, and and if you are thinking about c podcasting, it's likely that you do have, you know, maybe LinkedIn posts or TikTok videos or you know, things you've been writing for Substack. So, you know, maybe maybe you start with them. Maybe you say, okay, you know, this this was pretty well received. It fits my topic. You have your overall topic, and let me start by sort of turning those posts into podcast scripts. And and then, you know, and I mean make it easy on yourself, right? You know, don't and don't expect that you're what you're gonna be doing, you know, it's like we're all on our own journey. You know, I look at people and I see somebody talking about, you know, my podcast, you know, 25,000 downloads, and I'm like, okay, well, that's nice. You know, I I'm not there yet. I'm doing pretty well, but I'm not there yet. But then also to celebrate, you know, once you have 500 downloads, celebrate that because every little thing is a milestone and you you have to, you know, just just compare yourself to yourself and not to other people.

Gabe Leal 25:14

Right. And that's where again the the intimidation factor comes in of seeing somebody saying, Hey, I've had 50,000 downloads. Awesome. That's great. You didn't see the first what was it like in the very beginning? That to me, that's the origin story of most of these podcasts are seeped in messiness and not knowing what I was doing. And it again, like you said, the trial and error of figuring it out all where people want to come in and they want to have the nice, they already want the uh the the established polished version that they're hearing or watching. Yeah, and that's hard. So, what was that like too for you? Because you said you went to the podfest and this lit you up a little bit. Was transitioning from just doing an audio medium into doing a a visual medium now that you're you were doing both. Did you had to shift? Did you shift excuse me? Did you have to shift maybe your perspective and how you created? Or say for a podcast, you could have been dressed in your in your pajamas recording and all of a sudden you're gonna get my camera.

Annette Richmond 26:17

I, you know, I I can even though even though I'm on video, I could still be in my pajamas and just you know put a little makeup on, you know. So so it could be that. But again, for me, you know, video is kind of my thing. I love doing video, and I've been doing that for a long time and I'm comfortable on camera. And then then that's also because I just did it over and over and over again, you know. But I So for me, going to video was an easy transition because it gave me I could make video clips and you know, which gave me additional content that I could use. So it was kind of a no-brainer, you know. But again, even even if you're not, I'm sure you can speak to this as well. The more you do anything, the easier it gets. Nobody steps in front of a camera and they're comfortable like that. The first videos I have, I have my old videos suck, you know, and I share them with people. I have the evidence. My early podcasts, you know, you get like, you know, maybe 10 people download or something. It's like, okay, well, you know what? That's that's great. And then if you get, you know, 25 people download. Well, if you had

Building Confidence Through Podcasting

Annette Richmond 27:19

25 people in a room listening to you, you'd feel pretty good.

Gabe Leal 27:21

Yeah.

Annette Richmond 27:22

You know, and people think, well, it's gotta be like a hundred downloads. Well, you know, maybe not. Uh it think of the the number of people. If they were in a room and you were talking to them, you you know, how would you feel that? And I I think that maybe can sort of, you know, bring a little reality or context to it.

Gabe Leal 27:40

Right. Um because for you know, for the amount of time that I've been doing this, both video and audio, that was one of the things that I've truly had to come to understand. It wasn't just about the metrics of who was listening or what was who was listening and where. It was more about what I was able to create and distribute out into the world. Because I I think personally, if you're gonna start a podcast, it has to be something that you're truly passionate about. It's something that has to be part of who you are as an individual. You can talk about business. I tell people this all the time. You can talk about business all the time. You can create a podcast about there'll come a point where you hit a wall and you're gonna go, why am I continuing to do this? Like every podcaster's run it so far, just about every every one of them that I've interviewed that that had the long-term sustained success creating, they all come into that question of man, should I redo this? Should I reframe this? Should I try to go at a different angle? But then they realize eventually, well, it sticks to the why of why I started doing them in the first place. And it carries them through those moments of questioning. Like you've done again over a hundred episodes with just one podcast, and then started, you know, another one. Two, exactly. Then you started another one. What was, you know, that again for you

Unexpected Lessons from Hosting

Gabe Leal 29:05

sitting down with it saying, Okay, uh, maybe I do need to walk away from this and start something else, or I love so much what I'm doing now, I could continue to do this for another 500 episodes.

Annette Richmond 29:14

So I love podcasting. I I mentioned to you, I feel like I am a podcaster. I mean, it's just part of who I am. I'm a podcaster, I'm a content creator and podcaster. And my shift is when I first started, it kind of shifted with my business and and my interests. So when I first started it, I was working in the career field. And so my first podcast was Smarter Career Moves. And then as I was shifting my business and I was talking about more business things, it became smarter business moves. And so it was easy to kind of shift that, you know, in that direction. And then when I shifted my business completely a couple of years ago, you know, kind of right after the pandemic, to doing more content marketing, leaning into video marketing, I started content marketing school because that is the area that I work in that I am currently continuing to learn about. You know, I'm I'm not looking at career information, I'm

The Work Behind Podcasting

Annette Richmond 30:14

increasing my skills in those areas. So I'm I am constantly learning and I take what I learned and I pass it on to my listeners, to my clients, whatever. And of course, it's also there is something to it about it's nice to be regarded as knowledgeable in a certain area. And so I do think a podcast um can can give that to you if you are with potential clients. Maybe you're gonna speak at a conference or something. And I think that having that can help you, you know, in those areas. And I think also, I know for me, the longer I do it, it builds my confidence. When I have a guest on, I have recorded a podcast with someone just the other day. And he's like, oh, you know, you're such a I feel so comfortable and it's been such fun. And we're together for a half an hour and it goes by in a flash. That makes me happy. You know, it makes me happy. Um, and I guess that's something that's not, you know, it's not necessarily sellable, but it is something I think that builds your confidence. And, you know, again, it's fun for me talking to other people. I talk to people in the grocery store. I was a former bartender in another life, you know. I I just like it. It's fun. I I I think that you have to, again, it goes back to that curiosity. I think there has to be something there besides like, well, I'm gonna do a podcast and you know, be an authority on whatever this is.

Gabe Leal 31:38

So that that leads me to another interesting question that I've that these are just takeaways that I've had over these conversations, is that what is the what is the one thing that you realized after you started doing this that was unanticipated? So for me, and you just mentioned it as well, you get you learn that as a host, you get as much away from these conversations as you do the guest and the subject matter. You know, that you take that there are sometimes lessons that you've heard or experiences from others that kind of give you different perspective or insight. And it's almost a form of therapy in a way to have these conversations because every single time you feel different afterwards. Like if you've become to the point where it's like, okay, just turn the camera off, I'm done and walk away and nothing. I think you're you're doing it wrong.

Annette Richmond 32:28

Yeah. I think so too.

Gabe Leal 32:30

You're doing it wrong. So, what was the the things that you what was do you if you do remember, what was that like that moment that that set off in Search and said, Wow, this is something that I had no idea would make me feel this way.

Annette Richmond 32:44

So, you know, it's it's interesting because I I started originally just doing solo episodes because I didn't know anything else, and that's what I started doing. And then when I started doing LinkedIn Lives, my audio for my LinkedIn live shows became content for my podcast as well. So, you know, for me, doing the the live shows was was sort of the that I brought to the podcast. And it was that idea of, you know, media, I love media, study it in college, it's fun. And I had that's the same ideas then. Have interesting people join me, people that I wanted to learn from, people that others would learn from as well. And one of the things that I loved about, even though it was a live show, and if you do a live like on LinkedIn or something, it stays there, but nobody really is going to see it again. If they're not there live or if they don't watch a replay quickly, they're not going to see it again. And a podcast is there. I mean, I can go back and listen to, we can go back and listen to on podcasts that we're learning from. We can go back and listen to other episodes. And so that's one of the reasons I I like the podcast format. But I think one thing that I was a little surprised at is that it it actually is quite a bit, it is work too. And so as much as like I I think you have to enjoy it, which is kind of what you were just saying. You have to, it has to be more than just another thing you do because, you know, there is work involved. You have to be consistent. It's not even like a social media platform where you can say, well, you know, I'm gonna go on vacation for two, three weeks, and I'm just not gonna do anything. You do have to be somewhat consistent, you know, at least, I don't know, once a week, in my opinion, you have to do at least once a week publish a podcast.

Gabe Leal 34:27

Yeah.

Annette Richmond 34:28

So I that surprised me a little bit that the work involved, but so worth it.

Gabe Leal 34:33

Yeah. And I and that's where I I love bringing that insight a little bit for new creators who are gonna have to walk. So part of me is gonna be doing a a two-step series. So first I'm taking the idea of interviewing hosts who've gone down that path and who've created so many episodes and they they've gone through it. And then the next series will be I'm gonna be getting new podcasters who've only done say make maybe 10 or 15 videos, and then draw on their experience as well of like what have you learned like recently

Promoting Your Podcast Effectively

Gabe Leal 35:06

that has made you like decide I love doing this or I hate this.

Annette Richmond 35:10

Yeah, yeah.

Gabe Leal 35:12

There usually comes a point where you go, I hate this or I love this, and I want to continue to do it.

Annette Richmond 35:16

Yeah, and and you know, I'm I'm guessing if you if you really hate it, then it's probably not it's probably not for you. I mean, you know, everything isn't for everyone, right? And just not.

Gabe Leal 35:25

Yeah, and it's you know, and especially for people who like yourself who say have had a uh background in media, and that kind of transition, it's not I don't want to say seamless, but it it it's usually a little bit easier for them because they have an idea or an understanding of what it is to construct, whether like you were writing articles. You had you had to have structure to to write articles and research and that sort of thing. But when people are starting a podcast and they're like say, I don't know, uh elevator tech at a building, whatever, and I want to talk about podcasts. I mean, I want to talk about elevators and how to build them structure behind it. And they're not gonna have any idea of where to even get started.

Annette Richmond 36:07

Well, yes, I there there, you know, there is there is that advantage that you know that I did have. And I I studied film and video and everything in college too, but um, but it's it's so much, I think, of having something that that you are interested in, as you, as you've said, and something that you are going to want to, I think, be learning about yourself. For example, you know, if I'm gonna have someone be a guest on my show, it's something that I know that maybe I'm learning more about. Maybe it is podcasting, because I can talk about my experience. Maybe I want to have somebody come in talk about podcasting or talk about marketing their book or something. And that's something that I know a little bit about because I've done it, but I can have an expert come in and we can go more in depth with it. And that is, you know, a benefit for me because I always I always learn something, but it's also a benefit for the audience. So I I think you do have to have something for the audience that that you want to have them learn or you want to help them in some way. I for me, you mentioned, you know, I mentioned media and you mentioned media in the background. For someone who maybe would want to have been be on TV or be on radio or something, this is kind of a way to to experience that in a way, you know, but but on a more more personal level.

Gabe Leal 37:33

Right. And that's where I think a lot of people find the attraction with wanting to start a podcast. It is like my own little uh soapbox to come on and start talking and sharing, and whatever it is that comes you know to my mind, I I can put it out into the into the world. I I wanted to talk about the next part that usually, and you have a background in doing this, you've done this now for a while, but you've you've sat down, you came up with the idea, you got your why, you've recorded, you figured out how to edit, you've my system. Now, how do you sit there and say, I got a product, now I gotta at least find a way to promote it out into the world for people to ultimately discover what I'm doing, if that's you know, something that most podcasters don't have an idea about. They might know about social media, but they don't know how to promote. And there's a difference.

Annette Richmond 38:25

So, one thing I think, and and this really helped me with my second podcast, is thinking about how you're positioning it. For example, the name of the podcast. I'm a writer at heart, you know, I like to be clever. Clever doesn't work so much for a podcast name. People, people are looking and they're seeing and they're looking for something. Um, that they're looking for something specific. And if I if I have some vague name about, you know, I don't know, getting your ideas out there or something. I mean, who it's not specific. People are going to be looking, and I think that that's important in you know, the title and subtitle, whatever of your of your podcast. I think you need to think about being on directories. My podcast is everywhere, everywhere. So, you know, there I have a better chance of people finding it. I also I have, you know, create it in video, so I have video clips. For though, before when I was just creating it in audio, so I was on um Buzz Sprout and I could create audio clips. And I know there's, I'm sure there's other podcast platforms that have that. There are other ways people can create audio clips. So I used to do that as well. Like I one one day a week on LinkedIn. I would put a um video clip now or an audio. It's like an it's audio, but it's on a video clip. I don't know how to explain it. Maybe you can just define what exactly that is. You can have that and you can share that that way and get people to come to your podcast. I share my podcast in my newsletter. You know, I I share things like that. So, you know, um, or uh, you know, use my podcast as a transcript to create a post and learn more on my podcast.

The Importance of Clear Titles and Numbering

Annette Richmond 40:03

I mean, there's a lot of things, things like that, but I think the videos, and you know, I will note if it's a video, if it's a clip from my podcast, episode number, you know, 128. And that's when one thing that I will say and that I started doing is um numbering my podcasts, which makes it easier not only to know how many you have, but to refer to them. If I'm talking to you and you're asking me a question, you know, about something, and I say, well, you know, I talk about this, blah, blah, blah, and I talk about this more on episode 98. And that way you can, you know, it's a better way to, I think, promote it. So that's something that I learned from listening to somebody else's podcast on podcasting. Right. Right? Because, and it's like, oh, wow, what a great idea. But it's like a lot of things. It's like, wow, what a great idea, but you know, you still when somebody else says it, it's like, yeah, of course.

Gabe Leal 40:53

Right. It's like, hey, let me let me number my catalog here, because it you're looking if you've been in this game long enough, you start realizing that these episodes and the way that you're creating and what you're doing can add up, right? And it's just an easy way to for you to have a Rolodex system. And I just dated myself with that system in place.

Annette Richmond 41:14

Oh, I got one on the shelf.

Gabe Leal 41:17

To say I can just scroll through and I know what episode it was. Like break down what all mine. I've done over 500, almost 600 videos on my own, and each one of them is numbered and seasoned. Yes, seasoned, yes. And I and I learned that from like you said, from listening to another creator who said, that's a fabulous idea.

Annette Richmond 41:41

Yeah, right.

Gabe Leal 41:42

Let me go back and do this.

Annette Richmond 41:44

You know, my my first my initial podcast, I didn't know to number them. So I'm like kind of like, if you go back, you just and if I want to tell somebody, I can't say episode this, you know, it you have to. And so I think that it makes it easier. I think it also makes it easier if someone is on um on their phone, maybe they're on Apple Podcasts or something, and you they can go to the show and and scroll down and and look and they find something that's interesting and they can remember. Oh, let me go back and listen to that. Right.

Gabe Leal 42:12

And that was the reason. That was the main that's the main reason.

Annette Richmond 42:16

Yeah, yeah. And also to have the you know, the clear titles. You know, I I like clever. I love something that sounds clever and punchy, but you know what? It doesn't help, it doesn't help the listener. If you have a clever title, then they don't know what but they don't know what it is. What does that mean?

Gabe Leal 42:31

Right. And it and for me, it was one of the things of helping with uh new podcasters figure out discoverability. How do you get found? Like when you go to one of these distribution platforms, like say to Apple Podcast or whatever. If you have them already cataloged and broken down by number and season, there you just say season three, episode 11, they can go there, find it so quickly. Same thing with putting them on YouTube. You go there and you go, hey, look, I've put them in seasons, I put them in playlist. You can go find them. It's super simple. Like it helps with the process of finding people be able to go back and discover an episode or guest or subject matter that they want to listen to. It's it just helps with the whole process of cataloging everything.

Annette Richmond 43:17

And you know, this just brings to mind, I heard I learned from uh another podcaster that listening to this podcast is the idea that even if you're talking on stage and I'm saying, oh, and yeah, blah, blah, blah. But I go into this in more depth on episode number blah, blah, blah of my podcast. Right? I mean, it's just, but but the thing is again, I did my other podcast for, I don't know, two and a half years, three years, I don't remember exactly. And I never, you know, I never thought about it. And then I started listening. And that's why um listening to podcasters talk about podcasting like this podcast um i is so helpful. And again, I you never stop learning. I I I still continue to listen. And obviously to other podcasts about podcasting and I pick up tips and then just from people at places like PodFest or something where you can learn.

Gabe Leal 44:08

Right. And that's, you know, that's why doing these episodes is important because when people get started in the process, the smart ones take the time to research. So they're going to go do outreach to listen to different podcasts. They're going to go read your different blogs. You're going to read your articles. And they're going to take in as much of that information and formulate how they're going to approach podcasting. And that's what I wanted to make easier for them to say, look, here's an index. What do you want to talk about? Like I'm going to create one where I'm simply just talking about how to do everything either very inexpensive or free. Like I can't, you know, because when you get started, that's for a lot of people, it's the idea to sit down first. And then they start realizing as they look into prices of gear and how to do all the other stuff. Exactly. The faces you can't see it, folks, if you're listening. But the face you just made isn't one that you look at when you go, Wow, I had no this sticker shock.

Annette Richmond 45:02

Yeah. It's crazy. It's funny. I my my husband does SEO and he was talking to one of his clients about doing marketing and and specifically video marketing. And his client went out and bought, you know, camera and all this stuff. Never did one video. You know, and the same thing with the podcast. As you said, you don't have to, you know, you don't have to buy an expensive, you know, an expensive microphone. Even the one I have, I upgraded recently, and it's still not the pricey, you know. But I started, I had the blue, I had a blue snowball. That was the first one. That was my first podcast. They don't even make them anymore. It was 50 bucks. And that was my first. And I had just the I was just recording audio. So I had my my blue

Starting with Minimal Investment

Annette Richmond 45:43

snowball. And then after, you know, I don't know, a couple of years, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna upgrade and get the blue Yeti. And I had that for a while until I I recently just upgraded. I got a I got a shirt. And I, you know, been thinking about that. So that's a little bit more. But you don't have to start out with that. You can start out with things that are inexpensive, as you say. And even you can podcast hosting for free, right? I mean, you can start that way.

Gabe Leal 46:08

Yes. So here's and and that's the thing that I tell creators who want to get started into doing this is that don't be don't overwhelm yourself with the idea of how much you're gonna have to invest into doing this. Because to me, the the biggest investment that you should put into doing any kind of podcast is your time and your energy.

Annette Richmond 46:27

Yes, I knew you were gonna say that.

Gabe Leal 46:28

Okay. Right. Not not what you're spending the in front of me. It's great to have it. It's nice, it's a good aesthetic. These are great accoutrements to have as far as when you're creating shows and stuff, but you don't need all this stuff here when you can figure out the methods to do it free. YouTube is free, it doesn't cost you anything. You can go start uploading there. Most of these platforms like what I'm here using the currently, they give you most of them will give you free trials, they'll give you free time to go do this. And if you're starting out, how much more do you need to to do that? You're not gonna be recording 50 episodes, so it's not going to say, let me buy the yearly. I spoke to somebody and said, Well, I bought the yearly plan. I was like, I wanted to, I wanted to scream because I said, Well, do you know what you're spending per episode? Like I could, I could have done that for you for free. I could have told you how to do that for free to start out with. And then you can decide, like you said, I just recently upgraded. That's great. You upgraded, but it it was a time. It took time to get to that point, and you used what you had to get you to that idea to say now it's time to buy maybe a better microphone, a better camera, or not more lighting, whatever it is, into moving into that sphere. But it's it's not it's not what's necessary, right? It's the idea of having what I want to talk about, my content, my why, and then me sitting down to record.

Annette Richmond 47:49

Exactly.

Gabe Leal 47:50

And you know, what you do in video marketing and and how you help other people figure how to get started and saying even record how how to how to market a video, right? You do you approach it from the idea of saying, hey, let's start at the base level, let's find the most easiest, uh, inexpensive way to get started. And if it's worth the investment, let's jump to that level.

Annette Richmond 48:11

Absolutely. You know, that what I tell people is start with your phone. Pick up your phone, turn on the camera, and hit record. And if you can, the first thing is to get a wireless lavalier. But you can buy one now. You can buy them today for 20 bucks, 30 bucks. They're not expensive. And then that's all you need. You know, then light. You know, sunlight is the best, natural light is the best. You know, I and maybe, you know, a tripod. I mean, look, I have you know, probably close to a dozen different tripods for different things. I have different cameras for different things. Have a I upgraded to a you know more pricey wireless lavalier. But, you know, I use my inexpensive stuff for a while. And that that's exactly what I, you know, what I teach people about video or podcasting or anything like that. You don't need to go out and invest in a, you know, $300 microphone and, you know, an expensive camera. Even the camera I have now is not expensive. You know, it it is, it's the it is the content, you know. But I I think it's just you have to try it, see if you like it. You know, do you like it? Do you enjoy it? Because again, you know, there is work, there are times, I'm sure, you know, you've had them. You sit down, it's like, okay, I have to record something. I missed last week. I've got to record, have published

Creating Evergreen Content

Annette Richmond 49:28

something this week. You know, I have those weeks, not a lot of them, but you know, overall, I I think there has to be more than just, you know, I want to do this because I want to be a podcaster and I want to have my podcast on Apple or whatever.

Gabe Leal 49:43

I want to be Joe Rogan, and and they get this idea. Yeah, right. That they see the news. Everybody does. They see the headlines. Hey, I he signed $55 million to and they're like, wow, and then he's just talking. I could do that, but Yeah, right.

Annette Richmond 49:58

I I know, I know. You know, it it's so funny because I was doing audio events with uh with my friend Jillian for we did it for like a year on LinkedIn when they had LinkedIn audio. And we used to use the I used to use a lot of that audio. I'd put it on my podcast because we, you know, we'd be talking about something, but then we would have you know guests come up from the audience and then it would just be like a general conversation and go off track. So we would have to remove that because unless you're a celebrity, nobody wants to listen to that. No, no, you know, people come on, they listen to my podcast because they want their they're interested in content marketing. But if I start, if I have a guest on and you know, and it's a friend of mine and we start talking about well, you know, what movies you're liking right now, nobody wants to hear that unless you're, you know, Joe Rogan or somebody like that. You know, they they're just they're not interested. And so I I think that might be a humbling thing in the sense that, you know, people aren't coming to your podcast so much for you, I think. They they're coming for the information that they're getting from you, but not because you know, I'm a fan of hers or his or something. I I think.

Gabe Leal 51:01

No, no, you're you're I think you're spot on. Unless you're a personality that's already established, like it it's usually them starting out with the genre. And even those guys, even those guys that got started, their genre was comedy. So that's what they leaned into. That's what they started with, that's who they talked about, that's who they had on in the very beginning. It it was something that aligned with who they were at that point. It wasn't just broad talking about uh, I don't know, it's not like a news outlet where you you're talking about a topic of the day, and even those have a shelf life. You can't go back to listen to a podcast from five years ago talking about Yeah, that's true.

Annette Richmond 51:40

That's true.

Gabe Leal 51:41

How COVID is Yeah, yeah.

Annette Richmond 51:43

No, no, that that's true. Because I I listen to a lot of you know news and and political podcasts. But the thing is that sometimes even when they come on, you know, when they're published, it's it's like it's it's over.

Gabe Leal 51:54

Yeah, the cycles moved.

Annette Richmond 51:56

The cycles moved on, and sometimes they'll say that we're publishing you now and something else may happen. So, you know, my personal advice is if you're gonna be podcasting to be podcasting sort of more or less evergreen content, you know, at least a start, you know, because because other than that, I don't I don't know that I don't know that people are tuning in like every time I drop an episode, I don't think people are rushing to to listen to it, you know. Oh let Annette has another episode, I'll let me let me grab it and listen to it right this minute.

Gabe Leal 52:22

So here here comes this is the fun part that I get to do with uh all my guests. Let's let's go a little bit more about into um what you have coming up for yourself. And now that you've done so many episodes uh of your podcast now, what do you see for it in the future? Do you ever see a point where like, um I might be done with this? Or do you say to yourself, I got another 500 episodes in me?

Annette Richmond 52:49

Well, I don't I I don't know. To be honest, I don't think about that. I just think of it as part of what I'm what I'm doing right now. I think I have like 129 episodes on my on my current podcast. And I see this going at least another year. I, you know, I don't foresee it stopping. And then what I did with my my older, you know, the one that I stopped putting new content on, I archived it. So it's still out there. And the content was evergreen, you know, business tips, some of them are, you know, so I have that. So I don't see it shifting. I think I mentioned that my first podcast was just, you know, interviews and and uh some solo. When I first started this, it was primarily interviews. And then again, I learned from somebody else to have a mix. So it's a mix of solo and guest interviews, and I see it continuing that way. I stop recording, I stop doing them live. So, you know, I I do it recorded. But I will say that I don't really edit my recordings, my podcasts. My solo episodes, I record my solo episodes on Riverside. So I use the editing because, you know, if I if I want to stop and I start again. But my interviews with my guests, I don't really edit them unless there's, I don't know, a gaff or something, which uh yeah, rarely if ever happens, you know, um, unless somebody starts selling in the middle of it, but that that has only happened to me a couple of times. But other than that, I don't, I don't edit it because I I want it to be that

Future Aspirations in Podcasting

Annette Richmond 54:20

natural flow that it that it was. I want it to be conversational. I don't want it to ever sound like, you know, okay, now Gabe, what do you think about this? Okay, all right, all right. I've heard enough. Okay, let's go on to my next question. You know, I don't want it to ever be like that. You know, I enjoy uh the conversational um podcast. My guests want to come back. I've never had anybody they're always saying oh, I want to come back. So that's always fun. And you know, that's what I look for if I'm gonna be a guest on somebody else's show. Because you know what? Being the guest is so much easier.

Gabe Leal 54:57

Gosh, yes, right?

Annette Richmond 54:58

It's so much easier.

Gabe Leal 55:00

That is one enlightenment moment that I've um I'm learning. But when I have all these hosts to come on and talk about it, they're like, Thank you.

Annette Richmond 55:08

Yeah. Right? You know, you get to you get to come on and you know, it if it's a a topic you're interested in and it's somebody that you know you you'd like to talk to, um, you know, that's a bonus. If I get invited on podcasts, I do look and see, you know, if they have published a couple of episodes and then two months later they published a couple of more. I feel like, you know, it's probably not the probably not a good fit for me because I, you know, if if you're a new podcaster, yeah, okay, fine. I'm gonna jump on, you know, uh an episode with you. But I I want to feel like there's some kind of a commitment that, you know, you're not going to be spending your time and then, you know, five episodes or ten episodes in, and you know, it's like out in the ether somewhere and nobody ever hears right from it.

Gabe Leal 55:54

I've already so here's the thing, I've already recorded 20 episodes. Now, this thing hasn't launched yet, okay? These are I've just I've already but based on my my this is the thing, I've I've had the experience to build systems to make it easier on myself to handle. So the workload isn't hard. The hard part is just getting the guests to show up and have the interview, and I'm done.

Annette Richmond 56:16

Oh yeah, there is that. There there is that. That that's the problem. That's the problem. I tried doing a panel podcast for a while, and oh my gosh, I think I, you know, I did half a dozen episodes and it was just like this one can't make it, that one can't make it, this is that. And it's like, you know, if if I say I'm gonna be on your show, I'm on your show. I'm not, you know, I'm not saying, well, you know, something came up and you know, I gotta go shopping today, or just like but I have to say that I think that's that's rare that people don't show up.

Gabe Leal 56:47

Yeah, uh and it doesn't it doesn't happen very often. It's once in a blue moon, yeah, that somebody's like unable to, but for the most part, everybody shows up, even when they're running behind. Like that's I had to push that that's the reason I had to push back 30 minutes on ours, is because I had somebody, and this is somebody's done 700 plus episodes, okay? So they they they've done they've done their due diligence in work, but I understand sometimes life happens and you gotta go, okay. Let me go with the flow and see what I can do to make this work. And um, I think I have maybe five or six more episodes lined up, and then after that, it's just putting in the work and then launching second. So I'm gonna be doing an episode that's gonna be releasing every Tuesday and every Thursday to put them out there and eventually uh that that will give me enough. I built enough timetable to give myself to now start doing the outreach for then the next level of series, which is where I find the new podcasters, they bring them on, start getting their experience of what it's been like, and then um the next series after that will be I'm just going to be interviewing people who don't have one yet but are aspiring. Okay. So kind of in the progression, I brought on experts, seasoned people who've done it. I've got people who are just in the beginning process, so they're it's still fresh. You know, when I come back and ask a lot of uh seasoned podcasters like yourself, it's like, well, I don't know. I can't, it's hard to remember.

Annette Richmond 58:09

I'm already right six years ago. It's hard to remember.

Gabe Leal 58:12

It's hard to remember what that like in it, but finding them while they're still fresh, you get to ingrain a lot of like what what they've gone through, how they've developed, and then the people who are just aspiring and just have an idea to help them flesh it out and hopefully like get to see them launch eventually a podcast of their own. So yeah, that'll be a progression. I've thought this out.

Annette Richmond 58:31

No, I I like that. And when I when I was talking to uh to someone yesterday, it was kind of like, well, you know, I'm excited, and and if you have a question or something, please let me know. I'm I'm happy to to give you uh a suggestion here and there if I can.

Gabe Leal 58:45

I love that. Okay, so thank you again, Annette, so much. I do appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation with me. Uh I am grateful for every host who said yes and was able to come on and hopefully, you know, we produce a really great product, somebody to go back and learn from. That's all really what I want, is the main thing for me.

Annette Richmond 59:04

Well, well, thank you so much. I I I'm so happy to be here and uh thanks for having me.

Outro 59:10

And that's a wrap on today's episode of the podcast about podcasting. A huge thank you to Annette for pulling back the curtain and giving us a real honest look at what it takes to build something that actually lasts. Um if today's conversation resonated with you, the authenticity, the systems, the commitment to keep showing up, then you're going to want more of what she brings every single week. Go follow Content Marketing School on Apple Podcasts and make sure you connect with Annette on LinkedIn. She's the kind of person who actually engages, so don't be shy. And if you want to go deeper, head over to her website at Blackdog Marketing Strategies.com. It's packed with practical tools for starting, sustaining, and promoting your podcast the right way without the fluff. As always, if this episode added value to your journey, share it with a fellow podcaster who needs to hear it. Leave us a review, subscribe wherever you're listening, and we'll see you in the next one.

Speaker 4 1:00:17

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