Mastering Podcasting: From Zero to 1200 Episodes with Kurt Sasso

Introduction to Podcasting with Kurt Sasso

PodGlue Ad 0:46

Here's the thing with them. If you give any control of your voice, whether you're you're inputting a script, whether you're dictating QA or whatever, you're losing your symptoms. You're losing your voice, you're losing what makes you use it. Because now that voice is cloned, that voice is used in whatever other purposes that you don't know of, and you've given blatant consent to an AI computer to use your voice for whatever music is necessary. In order to stop that, you have to actively write things out. I have a long-running Word document that I used since 2000, and it's been modified over the decades when a new version comes out. So it's a list of collection of questions I've asked every single guest I've had on over the years. If that were to be put into AM, then that would actively lose the specialist that is to come.

Gabe Leal 1:43

In 2008, before podcasting was a career path, before the gear guides launch courses and LinkedIn posts of building in public, Kurt Samsung hit record. He was trying to document the web economic world his friend was building. What started as a favor became a show. With zero reasons. He is interviewed at the first ever C2.

The Journey of Two Geeks Talking

Gabe Leal 2:47

Let's start this conversation with Kurt and dive deeper into Money You Need a Podcast. Hey everybody, so welcome to another episode. We got another great guest lined up for you. I want to first of all say thank you to our guest, Kurt, for taking the time out of his day to join us on another episode. But this guy's a veteran, he's done so many of these, so I'm pretty sure he'll be able to, excuse me, give us a little bit more about what it is. So welcome to the show, Kurt Sasso. He is the host of Two Geeks Talking. Kurt, I wanted to jump right in because we only have an hour, and I know that we can talk a lot really quickly in an amount of time. But I want to get to the first, our anchor question, which is for anyone out there who's listening, inspiring podcasters, new podcasters, why should you do a podcast?

Kurt Sasso 3:35

Well, the main question is why shouldn't you? Because it is one of the most easily accessible mediums that is out there. It is something that everyone is listening to. At least 80 to 90% of the world is listening to podcasts, whether you're at the gym, whether you're in your car stuck in traffic, whether you're just actively perusing the internet and you just just saw in the background. You are always going to be listening to something, some way, shape, or form. And those that can actively multitask can actually watch, say, a video interview as well as listen to the podcast at the same time. It's it's amazing the technology these days. But the question is, what style of podcast do you want to actually do? And I think that's the main thing. If you have a passion in something that say Lego or Lord of the Rings or Star Wars or whatever the case may be, if you're of a geeky nature, then maybe that's your style of podcast you want to do. And and for me, I I wanted to talk to people with two geeks talking. I wanted to actually dive into introspective nature of speaking to creative, talented people in the entertainment industry, whether it was in comics, TV, and film, actresses and actors and all that fun stuff, the glitz behind the glamour, uh, musicians or even in the video game industry, which is a much under which is a billion-dollar industry, but no one really gets to interview these types of people. So I wanted to be kind of at the forefront of that style. So why should you make a podcast? You should always put forth your passion that you have in life into an audio format, and why not make a podcast of your own?

Gabe Leal 4:58

Yes, I love that answer, Kurt. Why did you actually start two geeks talking and what was the gap between what you expected and what you got when you were, you know, go back

Transitioning from Audio to Video

Gabe Leal 5:08

and look and retrospectively and say, wow, this is not, you know, something that I planned. What was that like going back?

Kurt Sasso 5:14

Well, it it literally wasn't planned whatsoever. It was a uh it was uh one of those factors where back in 2008, when I started, and this is the wild west of podcasting, podcasting wasn't a term until 2005, 2006, just for the historians out there. Uh for me, it was a friend of mine who was creating a webcomics.com database. It was a database of all of the web comics that were currently available uh online for free uh on the internet. And I said, Well, we have this huge database of of creative and pe uh creative people in the webcomic community. Why don't we do a podcast? You know that phrase, let's do a podcast. Yeah. It was basically coined way back when. So it's it's popular now, but we coined it way back when. So my friend who was busy with websites said, Go ahead. So myself being an IT, I was I was a computer guy. I wasn't a podcast guy. I didn't know what technology I needed, what microphones I needed. I was using an old Logitech stand microphone that, you know, just crappily sat on your desk there, and it was the most worst audio quality you could possibly imagine. But at the time, we were only dealing with 64 hertz audio. So the audio quality was just as bad as the microphones you had. So I I I had to learn from the ground up. I had to learn like I I went to a website and I think it's still around, podcast answers or podcastans.com, uh Cliff Ravencl uh Ravencraft, something like that. I learned from him. I learned from his style of of what technology you needed and how you should do, you know, how you should host a show and where you should go for free, because I wasn't going to pay money for things I didn't know. So let's let's use the free route and really take advantage of that. And so I had a very low entry point because I was starting from fresh. I didn't have any preconceived notions, I didn't have anything along that line that allowed me to say, uh, this is the quality I want, this is where I need to be, you know, 200 episodes in or whatever. I was just hoping to interview 100 people and say, all right, it's a success. You know, we did a podcast, I can do whatever else I want to do in my life. 18 years later, 1200 plus episodes, and then some I'm still doing it. And I'm doing video along with audio too.

Gabe Leal 7:21

I love that. You're you're um and you're see, this is what a pro does. You're almost going on to the next question. So by 2012, you had 75,000 downloads on audio loan. So 750,000. Let me get that number right. And those are earned. So, what did it feel like when you had to pivot or you just decided to pivot to doing video?

Kurt Sasso 7:38

I was burnt out. I I was I was literally burnt out with the podcasting side of things. And it's not because of you have to kind of figure it this way. Uh in 2008, when we started, a hundred episodes was the goal. We did 250 in our first year. And that was August till till August of the next year. By 2012, I had interviewed almost 700, 800 comic creators in the webcomic community alone. That was just comics, that was just web comic specifically. I was burnt out. Like, I I don't know how else to say it. I was literally burnt out. A friend of mine who's a comic creator in Chicago said, Hey, C2E2 is a brand new comic convention that's coming to Chicago. Come on down, bring a video camera, bring an audio camera, bring your friend Mike down, and and do video interviews. Just record people in webcomic pavilion because that was the thing. Record Whipcomic Pavilion and just get your five, 10-minute interviews with these creative people that are not just in the webcomic community. Maybe you're gonna get Artist Alley and get some amazing people, um, which I ended up doing. So that was a four-day event, a three-day event, and I did 150 interviews in that alone. And that was video interviews on a little Sony handheld camera with a really crappy Sony microphone uh recorder where I just synced the audio and the video, and the frame rate of the video was faster than the audio, so there was constant out of sync for everything. So, as a as a host, do you understand that side of things where you're like micro editing and breaking down frame by frame just to try to even get a minuscule amount of sync whatsoever? Lesson learned. You get a better video camera, you get a uh uh microphone that links right into the camera itself, and now you don't have to worry about sync. That was years later.

Gabe Leal 9:23

We needed 150 episodes, I mean 150 interviews with that first style. That first style. Oh my god.

Kurt Sasso 9:31

But I but I did it, I did the same equipment in Chicago as I did in Toronto about three months later. So tighter interviews in Chicago, getting a better format, breaking it down instead of like say 10 questions, which was the initial goal. These people are trying to sell comics, they're trying to run a business. I'm not trying to interfere with their business. I want to get the tightest amount of questions and answers possible and how we can support you type thing. I need five basic questions I need to ask every single person. And let's just run and run run and gun and just uh pray your feet don't

The Importance of Passion in Podcasting

Kurt Sasso 10:03

fall off by the end of the uh the first stage. So is that something you would suggest to say a new, a new, you know, uh somebody new to the world now of podcasting when they get started, they have all these grand ideas in the planning stage, and then they get to the reality of let's record and you know putting out however many uh hey, I got 20 questions I'm gonna try to answer in an hour. Like, do you know what that's like actually? Yeah, it's it's but here's the problem is there you can plan all you want, but the plan will always fail. You'll have to throw away the plan, you'll have to redesign the plan, and you'll have to just wing it by the end of plan B Z, whatever it is. You just have to do it. You have to the technology nowadays is so much more accessible and easier to use, and the quality is so much higher than when I started, that you have no excuse to do a podcast or do a video interview show or do whatever you want to do because you could literally use your phone and make something, anything, and post it online, and now you just started your career in in entertainment or in podcasting or whatever it is. So the only person that's stopping you from pressing record is you you can, like I said, you can plan all you want, but if you don't press record, it it's all stuck up here and it does absolutely nothing up here other than this is a really cool idea on your deathbed.

Gabe Leal 11:17

Right. So that kind of leads me into another question. So, how do you feel when people want to, I guess, differentiate and say podcast is audio only and uh video is uh, you know, the vlog or whatever? How do you feel about that when you ever people start getting into the world of podcasting and you have all these like quote unquote who say no, it's it should be audio only?

Kurt Sasso 11:41

When I started this, yes, I would have said, okay, yeah, I'm only gonna do audio podcasting uh because that's what the technology allowed me to do back then. As soon as I switched to video, and as soon as I got onto YouTube, that was an

Overcoming Challenges in Podcasting

Kurt Sasso 11:53

eye-opening experience because you can post literally anything on there and you have a wider, sorry, you had a wider range of people looking at it until 2016 when they decide to throttle everything. That's when I got demonetized as well, too, because they did an on-ass demonetization of the YouTube channels, and they basically said, Okay, Mr. Beast, and things like that. Here you go, here's all your billions of dollars. Anything else that is under my our thousand dollar and or a thousand subscriber or thousand watch hour limit, um, you're no longer monetized. So that's that was basically the the roadblock of YouTube anyhow. I'm up straight. You have to do both, and here's why I say you have to do both, because not everyone will listen to your podcast and not everyone will watch your videos, they will be either or or they'll do both in some way, shape, or form. Some people don't like watching videos and they just like to listen to the audio. When I'm editing an interview, I'm editing for audio, but I'm still gonna post the video. Yeah, so if you have the flexibility to do both, then do both. If you only want to focus on being a podcaster, then that's great. There's not there's no derogatory term for being a podcaster. There's the reason why I call two geeks talking a show is because it's an entertainment interview show. It also has a podcast component. So do do what works for you in your limited time on this earth and enjoy what you're doing because if you're not enjoying it, then the people listening to you or watching you will see and hear that. So you have to bring some excitement to your own show, or else why are you doing it?

Gabe Leal 13:18

Right. Well, that that kind of goes into kind of the next question of like where do you see that like a lot of podcasters get stuck? You can go you can go on uh Spotify, Apple, type in a random podcast, and you'll see like three or four episodes and just dead space after that, just nothing. And it's crazy, but what is it that kind of keeps you wanting to be consistent with what you're creating? I think you were just hinting on it, but for a lot of creators out there who get the idea of like, hey, I'm gonna start a business podcast, but I'm not that passionate about business, then you're doing it wrong.

Kurt Sasso 13:51

I mean, uh you may like business, but are you actually passionate about it? And that's where a lot of people go wrong. They they choose the wrong, and I hate to use I know the term niche is thrown around there a lot here, but it's it's a hobby. Well what are you passionate about? What is your hobby? What are you nerding or geeking out on? Talk about that. Don't talk about something you think are going to get views unless you're absolutely enthralled by business, then it's okay, do business. But if you if you think, oh, this is an interesting concept, or I like how this podcaster interviewed these business people, I should do the same thing, you're barking up the wrong tree. Um I I it's it's really because when you see those uh episode three and it stops, or episode ten and it stops, which is a lot more common these days, they've hit a wall in some way, shape, or form. The question is what stopped them from moving on? And if they keep if they can't find a way past that wall, whether it's reframing their show or reframing the way they ask questions or reframing the theme of their show, if we want to go with uh with a geek perspective, I I interview comic writers. Am I a writer? Kind of for TV and film, but I'm not a comic writer, so I'm gonna ask comic writer questions. Am I an artist? Oh god, no. I there's no way in the heck I am uh I'm an artist whatsoever. I went to school for fine art, but I was not a great fine artist. I like photography more than fine art, but I learned color wheels, so that's a thing. But it's not so it's something I can appreciate, but it's not something I could actively talk about. But because of my art background, I can ask interesting questions in regards to color theory and light and shadow and things like

Finding Unique Voices in Podcasting

Kurt Sasso 15:24

that to an actual artist and make it entertaining. But that's that's part of the the finding your voice and finding the flow of of of your style of show. Being an interview show, sorry.

Gabe Leal 15:35

You're you're you're right on the office kind of go wanted to go into the direction of where you were talking about reframing. Before we forget about it, that you talked about you've done uh so I've interviewed so far. Most of the creators have had at least over 50 episodes. That was kind of my minimum. But one of the things that I've always been kind of enamored with is how they can create so many episodes. I've had people with seven, you're you're the highest, you're 1200, okay? Yeah, you get the crown.

Kurt Sasso 16:03

Yeah.

Gabe Leal 16:04

But when it gets to a point, do you look at it and say, maybe I need to reframe what I'm talking about, or how do I, you know, reshape and reformat what we're talking about on the show? Because some people feel that they either get burned out or the context is like um overanalyzed because it's been talked about over and over and over again. I'm going, I'm gonna go down this path because this is what I'm talking about. I'm talking about podcasting. So how much can you think you can talk about podcasts? I'm gonna go find out.

Kurt Sasso 16:30

Well, here's the here's the good thing about how I've approached my show. And this will work for me. This may not work for everyone, but this is just how I've survived 18 years of doing this. Every person I've had on the show is a new person to talk to who has a new story to tell, who has something either personal or creative that I have not seen or heard yet from another person. Sure, it may be similar to something that I've seen or read or whatever in the past 18 years, but it's not the exact same, nor will it ever be unless they blatantly copied someone else, which has never happened. So they have their own unique voice and their own unique story in what they're telling me. Unless they've been on the show more than five times, the first time is always special, no matter who it is. Whether they're an indie or whether they're in a uh a seasoned professional of many decades in whatever industry I interview them in, they are a brand new person that I have not talked to yet. And that's what keeps my show exciting after all this time. That is not to say that I haven't had interviews where I've had guests on multiple times, and this is only a handful of times in in 18 years, that it's been like pulling teeth. And it's been the same guest. And now I can't actively fault them for that because maybe they're they're they're I know they're an extremely introverted person, and they quite literally were having difficulty expressing their passion for what they were creating. Understandable. But I've had people that have been on the show 13 times in 18 years. I've had people that have been on the show 11 times in 18 years, and in fact, those two people are actively competing against each other for the crown of two geeks talking currently for the most guests. Trevor Mueller currently holds the third the record for 13. And Dirk Dirk Manning is the other with 11. So uh so and they're both from like Detroit, Chicago area. Like, yeah, they they are they're great people to chat with, and and I love having them on the show. They're always they're always talking about something new and different. So I know I'm going to have something new and unique and different on the show, and I know I can toss literally any questions at them, whether it's about process or or procedure or the back end of say Kickstarter campaigns or whatever. And I know I'm going to get some unique information that someone may enjoy and listen to because the guest is the focus on the show. If if you as the host make yourself the focus, unless that's your style of interview, or if that's your style of show, where you're actively having say a conversational approach, like what you do with live streaming, completely different animal than a simple one-on-one conversation like inside the actor's studio, or say like Tim Ferris style, or or whatever the case might be. I'm more of a Tim Ferris inside the actor's studio style. That's what that's what two geeks talking is really all about. And if that's your what you love doing and what you enjoy listening and watching to, then awesome. I I am the show for you. And God, do I have a backlog for you that you'll probably enjoy? And if you don't, let me know because I'd like some feedback.

Gabe Leal 19:19

You got a lifetime supply almost, which you know kind of goes into something that I've done both. I'm also a student of wanting to listen to people because that's what got me enamored and fascinated with podcasting in the first place, was just listening to people. But I

Implementing a Vetting Process for Guests

Gabe Leal 19:34

am also uh I know I'm a visual person and I like to watch and see. So I like both. But you just recently, not too long ago, talked about putting in a vetting a vetting process.

Kurt Sasso 19:44

Oh, yeah.

Gabe Leal 19:45

For guest after 17 years, where did you figure like I need to start doing something along this line to kind of a little bit of understanding of your guest or how you book them?

Kurt Sasso 19:55

Well, 95% of the time it's been word of mouth, which has been great, trust me. But the first five years, six years or so, I was actively reaching out to people. And I still do. If there's someone I actively want, I will send an email, I'll go on their social media, I'll do a DM, whatever it is, and I'll just lay it out there. Um I think that's a great way to actively gain guests as well, too. It's it's in a non non-evasive, it's just it's a direct conversation, and it is just straight into the point. Do you want to be a guest on the show? Here's my timeline, here's the schedule to sign up for it. Uh away you go. The vetting process started a couple of years ago. The only reason why is I'm part of a mastermind group that is uh a bunch of podcasters. And Isolda Trackenberg from uh she's recently changed her name. I'll have to get that to you afterwards. Is an amazing New York-based podcaster. She's been in podcasting for dummies books, she's a singer, she's uh an amazing host, just an amazing person overall. And and she has a vetting process. And she's like, Because of my uh of the morals and of her standards that she has for her show, you know, she won't do like say massive PR marketing routines, or because she's vegan, she won't do anything in the with the media industry, obviously. Just general examples. So she needs to have standards, which is perfectly understandable. So the vetting process that I that I have is basically a carbon copy of what she has, and it is uh it is filtered out a lot of stuff where I haven't it's not that it's a it's a bad thing to have every single guest that wants to apply on the show, it depends on on what you're looking for. And and if you keep the same style of guests coming back over and over again, but but that say the quality isn't up to standard, or they're brand new and and you see they have something, but they they need something more, they need a couple more years of experience with say their their comic or their film or whatever. As a podcast host, we have the right to say, I you know, I'm I'm sorry, it just doesn't fit our show. And so that's what the vetting process is allowing me to to really do. But now it's it's not a bad thing to have a vetting process, I think because I've done it for so long. I get a lot of good word of mouth, so I don't really have to use it as much. But if there's something, say there's a lot of questionable people in the world uh that are in the same entertainment industries that maybe don't align with my views or the show's views as a whole, like we're family-friendly, LGBTQ, et cetera, like I have to set up standards. And and this may be it's not gatekeeping whatsoever. It's just I'm I'm here to protect the audience I've built up based on trust and understanding and everything that I've built over 18 years. And to have say someone that is not up to those standards, unfortunately, would kill my entire show. I just I can't have them. Yeah.

Gabe Leal 22:37

So now that you have that in place, would you say there's a a particular moment or instance in your past where you wish you would have had one set up, like a guest that was like, Man, this was terrible. I should have vetted or at least had some kind of a little bit prior knowledge before I had him come on and record.

Kurt Sasso 22:56

Yeah, yeah. No, I am in fact, I had actually recorded a few interviews where they were basically being charged with various assault charges and everything like that, among SA and a bunch of other things. And it's just like, nope, those interviews will never see the letter. Yeah, I I did the entire episode, didn't the entire record, and this is also why I don't live stream. So though I I I have at least five or so episodes that unfortunately in my my time. Like this, I'm sorry, like whether it's true or not, I can't take that chance. So, you know, if it's a very rare instance for me, and unfortunately it has happened, and now that I can do it. Now there's been times where a guest has been on the show and they're like, I'm sorry, I talked about my work, but I'm in a a private sector and you know, dealing with say battered women shelter or whatever, uh could you take that portion out or whatever? And they're like, Okay, sure, not a problem. They're helping the community and and things like that. So it's like I have no problem with who I've interviewed in the past. As of right now, it's been a joy, wonderful, but yeah, unfortunately, there are have been some bad apples, and it's a shame.

Gabe Leal 24:00

It does happen. Knowing that I've done live streaming for six years now, learned early on I had to get a vetting process in. I don't say it's for everybody, but I had to because I knew when you have a live audience, when you have people there, you want to know hey, this person, this vibe or what they're talking about is going to align with your audience because it can turn sour pretty quickly. So I want to get into now some of the fun geeky stuff about what we get to do. A lot of creators, when they get started, it is the hey, we can just start with the phone. And that's great. That's I think that's a great template to start with. If you're just beginning and then you don't know anything else, that's one way to get started. But once you start getting into the next phase of saying, I want to upgrade, I want to start doing things. What are some of the suggestions you would make as far as putting in money, effort into investing now into what eventually will hopefully will become a business? But in the beginning, it's usually a very expensive hobby to start out with.

Kurt Sasso 24:55

Yeah, jobs have basically paid for all my equipment. So I I completely understand where you're coming from in that respect. Something I learned in film school, and I learned early in podcasting as well. It doesn't matter how good the picture is, if the audio is crap, it doesn't matter. So you have to have good audio. So the first thing I would recommend is get a two-channel podcasting setup, get a good microphone. I started with the RS Technica AT 2020. I still have it. It's a great microphone. Honestly,

Investing in Quality Equipment

Kurt Sasso 25:25

it still holds up to this day as a USB microphone. But I ended up getting uh gifted a two-channel setup and a and a road microphone. And I'm like, sure, you're you're you're basically my sponsor for the month, and I have no problem doing that as well. By the way, I am accepting sponsorships like that for equipment. So just saying if anyone wants to help me upgrade a little more, I'm all for it. But once you have a good audio quality, make sure that you're you're dialed in with your signboard because if you just set it to neutral, you're just gonna sound flat. So have a how I had an audio engineer, the same audio engineer from Chicago. He was listening to me as I was talking to him over like a zoom call or whatever, and he was like, okay, now turn this dial here, turn this dial here, and he was walking me through the manual setup while while I was testing my microphone. Fighting would be the next thing. I I mean, I uh also green screen. I have a newer green screen behind me because my place is a mess. I'm renovating, so uh I'm not gonna show you any of that stuff. But I got two 16-inch um newer ring lights just uh to keep myself evenly lit. Not spectacular, but it works out well. And and uh an old I still have an old Logitech C920P first of its kind uh webcam that still does good, and all I have done is tweak the settings to make me look as uh semi-handsome as this. So it is what it is. So good good audio quality is is truly key, no matter if you're doing video live streaming or or broadcasting itself. So get to that level and and away you go. And I'm sure for your phone, if you're working on your phone, there's portable setups or whatever it is from there. So yeah, look for those.

Gabe Leal 27:00

There's a couple, you know, somebody who's been a video guy and I do I do do video production. I've learned so you know what can work with a phone and what doesn't. But yeah, I I I I love just to hear people who have the same perspective that listen, audio works, audio's the best. And one of the one of the coolest tricks that I always use when I'm talking to them is I'll sit there and I'm telling as I'm talking, I'm but now you can. That's the trick. Like, what great what's the purpose of having great video lighting everything aesthetically? You can't even hear what was said. No, that's it's it's a thing that I had another instructor teach me. He's like, look, I'm gonna show you something. I mean, his video camera was perfect, very expensive camera, and then he started talking and then we couldn't hear him. We're doing the same thing. It's like that's your lesson. Audio, you need to make sure your audio sounds great because people even stick around. The audio's great and they can hear what you're saying, but you know, they'll they'll work their way, they'll turn it off the moment they can't hear nothing. It's like, well, what a great picture.

Kurt Sasso 27:59

It's it's funny you mentioned that because that happened to me at a con where um where where my the guy that was doing my um my video work thought the audio was turned up and it was actually turned off. And so I did I did uh at least 80 interviews and I didn't realize it until I was in the editing room. And so I I interviewed like Mr. Drep uh Mr. Dreps, yeah, and I interviewed like uh a bunch of wrestlers like uh Cactus Jack, uh McFoley, and all this other stuff, and a ton of other people, and I had no audio whatsoever.

Gabe Leal 28:30

Man, what is that?

Kurt Sasso 28:32

So audio is important, folks.

Gabe Leal 28:33

Audio is important, folks. So moving on to getting started in this whole process of and you've been like you know, like we've talked about you've started in 2008. Now with the advent of things like AI and the technologies that's that's changing, it's shifting the landscape pretty quickly. What would you say to somebody who's getting started in this world of of podcasting for the first time to prevent them from let's just say I don't well, I want to say not being able to sustain a process or show or system built upon something that again is always ever changing and shifting because what I'm discovering now is that there's all these podcasting tools and apps and all these other things that are starting to invent. And I'm somebody who again is relying who likes to rely, and maybe I'm old, I like to rely on the old new paper and uh writing down what I want to say and that sort of thing. So, what would you say to somebody who's getting started and to not overwhelm them in the uh beginning process so that they can find sustainability? Because you've you've been here since 2008. That speaks a lot to what you've discovered over time.

Kurt Sasso 29:41

Yeah, AI is a thing. Here's the thing with that though. If you give AI control of your voice, whether you're you're inputting a script, whether you're dictating to an AI or whatever, you're losing yourself. You're losing your voice, you're losing what makes you use it. Because now that voice is cloned, that voice is used in whatever and other purposes that you don't know of, and you've given blatant consent to an AI computer to use your voice for whatever means it deems necessary. In order to stop that, you have to actively write things down. I have a long-running Word document that I used since 2000, and it's uh been modified over the decades when a new version comes out. So it's a list, a collection of

Navigating the Future of Podcasting with AI

Kurt Sasso 30:27

questions I've asked every single guest I've had on over the years. If that were to be put into AI, that would actively lose the specialness that is to Geekstock. And so as a new podcaster, yeah, AI is out there. If you're going to use it, then use it for titles. If you're gonna use it, then use it for maybe a three-centered description, but don't use it for your question. That's what research comes into play. That's how you you researching what you're passionate about, Star Wars, etc. You should be researching that because you're actively consuming it. Don't let an AI allow you to lose what makes your passion a passion. That's just r ridiculous. Because once you give over that type of control, you don't realize you've lost it until it's gone. And so then your questions get put into the big machine and it gets regurgitated and everything like that. And it's there, it's not going to go away, but you have control of how you use it. Just don't use it for even exactly.

Gabe Leal 31:24

I mean, the thing is, you'll start it'll start producing so much in a way that sounds redundant, and you'll go, okay, this is definitely something that was put into a machine. They didn't take the time to listen to an episode. Like I I've been a I was a writer before I started doing this here too. So I do love actually putting pen to paper sometime, or not pen to paper, but actually typing out what it is that I wanted to create and what I want to say. And if there's something that it only thing I found it to help me do is pull together research a lot faster if I need one thing I can't remember, like to pull it up out of memory. But then once I have it, okay, I I just need the that moment of it and and not to let it overload everything that I'm doing, like all the graphics that I make are my own, all the things that are 100% because I I I'm somebody who wants to again express creativity, and I want new podcasters to understand that as well. Like if you keep your creative spark into what you're creating, you're gonna create a genuine product that will resonate or align with the right audience and with the right people. So that

The Role of AI in Podcasting

Gabe Leal 32:23

kind of gets me into where, like, how did you you know sort of deal with finding your audience when you first started? Like, what was it that you started to realize as saying, okay, I'm starting to see a particular individual or somebody trying to listen and do to like analytics from downloads? That's what that's the only thing I really love more of podcasting than I do anything else, is that you at least you do get a signal honed in idea of analytics, like live streams, they're terrible. I'm gonna tell you don't you're not gonna get the same analytics that you do with podcasting. It's it's a lot worse. So it's very hard to read that.

Kurt Sasso 32:56

Because I was interviewing webcomic creators to start, comic comic readers, whether they were webcomic creators or whether they were DC Marvel or whatever the case might be. The good thing about comics in general, whether it's web or digital or traditional, like you have a book, whatever, go to your local comic book store and you're there on every whatever comic book day is, Tuesdays or whatever. I was getting that audience immediately because that was easy to to get back in that day. Because there wasn't any real there wasn't any true crime podcast, or what there wasn't anything. In fact, I started I started my show a month before Joe Rogan and Mark Maron started their stuff. Oh wow. They're more they're more famous, obviously, and they've have the money, which you know I wouldn't I would love to percent of whatever they make, which is great. You know, just living expenses, you know, it is what it is. But I I I found from an audience perspective and analytics perspective, based on the the data I can remember from back then, I was I was getting like the the 18 and up 18 to 55 range. 60 percent male, 40% female. Is is pretty even to be honest back then, which was a real shock to be wow, perfectly fair. Uh and then as I I changed over to YouTube, it became more along the lines of okay, I'm getting the these 20, 30 ranges right now, or 30s into 40s range overall. So you have to look at this data no matter what it is, whether it's on a video or whether it's on your podcast. In fact, I I love looking at my podcast stats nowadays because I just brought it back about four years ago because Talk Shoe ended up deleting my entire archive. So my thousand plus interviews

Finding Your Audience and Analyzing Data

Kurt Sasso 34:32

that I had on Talkshoe was deleted randomly one day without any notification to me. Luckily, I'm a computer guy and I have everything backed up.

Gabe Leal 34:40

Backed up.

Kurt Sasso 34:41

So I didn't lose anything. Now, my quandary is do I release content from way back in 2008? That could be taboo or frisky or whatever in today's climate. Does it stay in the vault or doesn't it? I'm still debating that after all this time. But from uh from the analytics perspective of the podcast, currently, as I've released it for the past three years or so, I've just reached over almost 6,000, 7,000 downloads. I've I I've had massive downloads from, say, like Lithuania or Africa or whatever, where it's like a Germany, 200 downloads spike of they've downloaded absolutely everything that I so I've obviously done something right. I just don't know how or where it started. But people are listening, which means that the content I'm creating, the interviews I'm having, because it's it's all about the guests and telling their stories, people are listening to them more than me. And I think something is resonating with these people. And I can't thank them enough, truly, for whether it's views on YouTube or whether it's downloads on Podbean or iTunes or wherever you get your podcast by searching to Geek Stalking. So the TWO, not the number two. Yeah, I have to say that truly, because there's another show that has a number, and it's not my show. Oh, wow. I'm a little salty about that, but you know.

Gabe Leal 35:53

So let's talk about that a little bit for before we um start getting into the wrap-up. But the idea of distribution, because that's another one that a lot of creators run into and usually throw their hands in the air when they first get started because they don't even know what an RSS feed is, where where to what distribute distribution is, how do I find out my get my my podcast on Apple, Spotify, and all these other platforms. Um kind of talk a little bit more about that process. Um, for anybody who might be listening, want to get started and don't know what to do.

Kurt Sasso 36:25

Well, you you need a host, you can't run it off a server off your computer. Oh, you probably could, but I haven't researched that, and that's just a complete other rabbit hole. I just don't have time to dive down to, or else I would completely do that. It wouldn't have to pay like whatever I'm paying a year for Podbean, 150 bucks a year or something like that. Um, but it's a necessary evil. You're gonna have to pay pay money to get your content out there. YouTube will only get it so far, so you're going to need a host for your podcast specifically. I like Podbean, they seem clean as it is, although they're bringing in some AI functionality to it that I have to do a little more research on. Right now, every AI feature I have on my Podbean dashboard is currently shut off. Whether they're not, whether or not they pull a Microsoft or whatever and automatically turn things on without my consent, that's something I have to as well too. But for now, that's my current platform. It has the best audio quality. I can upload the files I I've already exported through DaVinci Resolve from when I'm editing the physical video interview. So I'm already doing two things at once at the same time, so I might as well just extract my MP3 because I know it's clean and I can upload it and I don't have to worry about it. So find a good host that that fits your budget because everyone has a budget. And and then start promoting it on your seven other social media platforms, whether it's Twitter, Instagram, Reds has been a real good avenue. Blue Sky is fun too. You have options and you have people, it's just a matter about reaching out to them and staying active in those social medias promoting your content, not just simply spamming, hey, I have a podcast, you should go watch it. No, you have to actually engage and communicate with people. This is not just sit back. This is not like back in the days where you could just post on a message board and say, hey, here's two geeks talking and uh you should come and watch it, and then I get like a couple of thumbs up. I mean, that still happens to this day, but uh you know, I think that's they're just liking the post and not actively watching. You know, it is what it is. Um yeah, it it it you're gonna have to research, you're gonna have to take time, ask questions of other podcasters that have been doing this in the business. If I get 50 DMs from this particular interview or whatever, I'm gonna have to create a video of my own. And and I'll I'll direct you towards the series. But I actually did start a series about that on my YouTube channel, uh TGT Media. So uh they can watch a good portion of of beginning podcasting and beginning video interviews and and everything like that. So it's something I was

Distribution and Hosting Essentials

Kurt Sasso 38:48

I had some time in December, like a year or two ago, and I said, Oh, I'll I'll put a couple of scripts together and see how it goes.

Gabe Leal 38:54

Yeah, absolutely. That's that's uh a big one for a lot of creators out there because um without the experience, I think that's one of the things that a lot of podcasters feel the frustration of how to get started. They might be able to say, Okay, I figured out recording. I know how that went. I figured out how to edit my stuff, but I I don't like the the the channels and how to distribute and find them. It can be a little bit overwhelming in the beginning, but that's I think that's where you have good communities, and like you said, doing the outreach and reaching out to people and then asking the questions. Um I I've I've found that there's so many podcasters who are just willing to say, Hey, let me help you walk this through. Like this is this kind of what the the genesis of what this was, what we're doing here now started as is seeing other creators helping each other out. And I said, Wow, well, they they're so open, and you know, again, they're not gatekeeping, they're not keeping I got all the secrets, you got to buy the 10 secrets behind this paywall. They were they were just like, hey, I generally want to help you. There it is. I've run into a few of them, but yeah, but you generally find most people that are open and willing to share their their acquired knowledge and kind of help a podcaster get started. That's one of the wonderful parts. And one of the things that you did mention was the idea of social media, which goes into now the next step of okay, you created, you edited, you found your distribution, you published. Now, how do you promote the dang thing? How do you find what the channels to get people to whom who may want to go and listen to your podcast, but don't know in the big sphere now of social media, then there's so many different channels and so many different places. How do you how do you find uh and how the people that you want this message to resonate with?

Kurt Sasso 40:40

Well, yelling into void doesn't help, just letting you know ahead of time. Um it goes back to actively uh communicating with people with similar interests. This is not about shoving your podcast down everyone's throat. This is about someone's asking a question about something maybe you're passionate about as well. Too be a human being and engage in a conversation, even if it's on social media, it doesn't matter. Maybe this person you spoke to one day now becomes big in the future and you've maintained a friendship, albeit online, to say congratulations on this promotion or congratulations on you know this amazing comic you just created. This is this looks amazing and beautiful. Hey, would you like to be a guest on the show or whatever? You get to the point where if that's your style and and you want to engage that way, then do it. But be a good human being. Don't don't be mean, don't be a dick, you know, like just be good, like because there's so much hate in the world as it is. Just it doesn't it takes five seconds to be nice to someone to cheer them up and do that on social media as well. Sure, there's toxic toxic fandoms, and we've all run into them continuously in some cases, I'm sure. But there are those that are still part of those fandoms that aren't dicks, yeah. So you know, find the people you like and just engage with them. You know, promoting your show becomes second nature afterwards, but it shouldn't be the primary focus of it. If they ask, hey, what do you do? Then sure, but hey, that's a great time to bring it up. But don't always often lead with that. You're not gonna go to like uh an actor or like a Sean Austin or something to say, I have a podcast, you should be on the show. Right? I mean it might work 60% of the time if he's in a good mood, which apparently he's a nice guy, but like it is what it is. So you you do what you can, but be a nice human being, engage and and actively like communicate with these people, don't just simply do a one and done and away you go. So hope that helps.

Gabe Leal 42:31

Yeah, no, no, no, that's perfect. I think that I think what you have just said is there's so much truth that that aligns with how I try to approach it as well. You know, my grandmother always used to say it's it's easier to draw flies with honey than vinegar. I mean, you you you get the sweeter you are, the more tendency that people will want to just give you an opportunity, just even just have a conversation. And that's what I liked about how we connected was literally it was just a threads post. It was just like, hey, I'm gonna interview podcasts. I'm like, hey, I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring. I have not I have nothing happening in the next 30 seconds. I'm just gonna throw this post up and reply to you. And it's like, all right, cool. Right.

Kurt Sasso 43:09

And that and that's it's it's not easy though. It's not easy, and people don't understand that. It's like you you're taking a shot on the what's the worst thing that can happen? They say no or they block you or both. So move on.

Gabe Leal 43:20

So that leads me to the the what I like to call the fun part now. Let's go into a little bit about what you got coming up or what would you like to promote? What are some of the things after 1200 episodes? Where else could you go down? What avenues can you explore? What is in the future for Kurt S?

Kurt Sasso 43:36

Uh well, currently the show is booked until about May. I'll have to look at my schedule. The for the free shows are booked until May. I do provide an interview service as well, which is also a uh maximum uh performance uh short package along with the interview with an interactive interview itself. So for YouTube specifically, I include uh video. And audio and clips of what they're speaking of, uh, their own products, comics, and TV and film that they've been in, etc., just to make it more engaging. It is, you know, just to have some fun. Uh gives keeps my editing uh tool sharp as well, too, because that is my my career as an editor and a DIT. So I I have interviews in that respect. And I have a few paid interviews as well, too, that are are coming down, which I'm really looking forward to. Like uh

Promoting Your Podcast Effectively

Kurt Sasso 44:22

a storyboard artist from The Simpsons for the past 20 years, he's moved into children's books for comics. Like, cool, this this is a great transition. This should be pretty awesome. Um and I won't do the old adage of who's your favorite Simpson or who do you look like or whatever like that. I'll try I'll try not to, anyhow.

Gabe Leal 44:38

You're not gonna be there, you're gonna be like, okay.

Kurt Sasso 44:40

Hold back. But then I I'm also gonna be working in the TV and film industry this year, as I happen for for many years now. Uh-huh. There's about four young adults, Degrassi Junior High style. I'm Canadian, so Degrassi Junior High, if you're not familiar. Okay. They're gonna be filmed in in my local area, which is amazing because they're usually everything is from London, Ontario up. So uh we're very fortunate to have those productions come down this way. Um so I'll be working on those too. And then there's a few other series for season two of a few things that I've worked on that are coming back, I believe. And uh, this is on Bell Five TV currently, and then they're releasing it online. I'm still gonna be doing this. I'm gonna be starting my 18th year actively on August 8th of this year. Uh I had to actually put it into the calculator and figure out because I was I think I was rolling my number over too fast. So I thought I was on my 19th year, but I'm not. So we'll see if I can make it to 20 and go from there, whether I retire or whether I keep going. We'll we'll see how it goes. Uh uh, other than that, I'm I'm looking forward to whoever I get to speak with. And and I'm still on threads, I'm still on the social medias. And uh if there's someone that I I would love to have on the show, I'm gonna actively reach out to you. And if you think that two geeks talking fits your style, I have a form that you can fill out and you know, similar to how we connect it as well. Too. It's like yeah, fill this out and uh I'll get back to you, get you connected, and if we were a great fit, let's see what you have to talk about from because this is all about you and the story you want to tell. I'm just here to help bring it out.

Gabe Leal 46:09

Yeah, see, that's what I love. You know, you get to act as the conduit for somebody to be able to share their story, and you get to be part and for a moment you get to be a part of their journey that's recorded, and you go back and you can actually go back and watch or or listen. And that's what I love about this, is that we're getting the archive points in in our lives and our journeys and having that stuff, you know. It was kind of what you know, the old hieroglyphics in the wall. That's how they had to that's how they had to pass along stories. For us nowadays, it's video and and audio that we're gonna be able to share onto our the next generation. Who knows? Um 200 years from now, they could be talking about, hey, Kurt was this group. You never know. You never know if you're gonna be the next Dickens. Who knows? That's all.

Kurt Sasso 46:51

Yeah, I I think uh once we get into VR and all that other stuff. I guess I'm gonna have to make a chibi avatar of myself or something like that, just to throw up there and and guide you towards the decades of Kurt and two geeks talking.

Gabe Leal 47:03

Uh we'll see how that can see how they yeah, but you know, it that's the one great thing about comic books, they seem to to to last a tell time. Those stories can be told over and over and over again. I mean, we're seeing them in the box office all the time. Those stories get told over and over and over again. And in the way I see it, it's the same way that they would do a Dickens novel. Yeah, you can always reimaginate, reshare it. And that's what I love about it is that it it's a it's a permanent way to just leave your mark on the world past the time that you're here. I mean, you're we're limited, our stories and our and our words probably carry on longer than we will. So thank you again, Kurt. I do appreciate you, man. This is amazing. Um, and again, you got the crown for me. I I haven't run in anybody else who's done this with as many episodes and for this many years, other than um I got one individual

Future Endeavors and Creative Projects

Gabe Leal 47:54

she's coming on. She's been a teacher. Listen to this, she's been a teacher for tw almost 20 years and getting started in it, but she didn't start her own podcast like until uh three or four years ago. Okay.

Kurt Sasso 48:05

Well, yeah, I I mean look, I'm I'm glad I have the crown currently, and to be fair, I'm I know I'm well past twelve hundred. I just say twelve hundred because that's the last time I counted. So I I've I've actively lost count. I could be closer to two thousand by this point, but honestly, uh it stopped me about numbers and it always was about the guests. And and you're not a number to me, you're a great person with an amazing story to tell. And I'm glad you took the time to be on Tunics Talking. And and I love what you're doing here, Gabe, with with what you're doing with this show. And uh this is another avenue for people. And I have a few podcasters you should definitely interview as well, too.

Gabe Leal 48:42

If I give any recommendations, I would because uh I'm not picking their brains because the just the creative sparks that go off in their heads and how they come up with the ideas, to me, that's the most fascinating thing. That's what I tell people AI will never figure out. I don't care how advanced they get it, you'll never figure out how how those neurons fire to create something so imaginative. Um all right. Well, thank you again, Kurt. Um, I will send you all the details once everything's done, completed up. I'm launching April 2nd. Um, so I already have six other episodes, but yours will probably be episode number three. Okay. I already I already lined them up how I want them. Oh, okay. You're number three. Uh I have two others.

Kurt Sasso 49:22

Well, I want to thank everyone for listening and watching to this particular uh show because it is an amazing show at that. And you can find two geeks talking and myself on our YouTube channel, youtube.com forward slash TGT Media the podcast you can find wherever you get your podcast by searching uh two geeks talking. That's TWO Geeks Talking. And I'm on social media everywhere at Kurt Sasso at Two Geeks Talking. And I respond to everyone that messages me. I know it's weird these days, but I like to talk to people. And as I say every week everyone has a story to tell, it's up to me to help bring that out. Thanks for listening, watching on two Geeks Talking in this amazing interview show.

Gabe Leal 50:00

Thank you. My God. All right, Kurt. I do appreciate it. Uh a lot of love having this conversation. Thank you again for taking the time, and I'm I'm truly grateful. You have a great one. Bye-bye.

Outro 50:15

That's a wrap on today's episode of the podcast about podcasting. A huge thank you to Kurt Sumasau for sitting down with us and sharing nearly two decades of hard-won knowledge from behind the mic. If you want to follow Kurt's work and dive into the world of 2D company, you can find everything the podcast, the YouTube channel, the newsletter, or two days. We'll see you next time. If you've been listening to this show, you already know the audio quality isn't an accident. Those intros and outros created with 11 lumps. And no, I didn't spend a fortune or waste hours in a studio to get there. 11 Lemps gives you access to a massive catalog of professional great voices. Or you can clone your own. Either way, you get broadcast quality sound that makes your content feel legitimate from the first second. Right now, you can start a free trial and get 10,000 credits for just $11 a month. That's professional level audio production for less than two cups of coffee. Click the link in the show notes and start elevating your creative process today.