Building a Community-Driven Podcast: How to Grow Your Podcast Audience with Authenticity

Why most new podcasters struggle with the dedication required

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How to start building an audience before launching your podcast

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Dory 0:46

Starting that we're techies. We were born in the tech world, basically. Our parents were techies, we're techies, and yet we could not figure out some of the simplest things to do. Because we're techies and we were used to the hard stuff.

The role of social media and community outreach in growth

Dory 1:02

So going simple was difficult. And I want to start with that. But then I would say because of our neurodivergence that we discovered through talking on this podcast and through therapy, my gets more easy. Like real easy. So what better way to give him something to do than for him to edit? And he gets out of my hair. I'm able to do what I want to do, read whatever it is that I'm interested in doing. And it keeps me from like trying to strangle him. And it works. We get a great product. He's alive. I'm not in jail. And you know, what better way could you do that?

Gabe Leal 1:37

Mike and Dory did not start a podcast because the timing was perfect or the gear was right. They started because the silence was no longer acceptable. Mike spent years co-owning an internet radio network in Ohio, learning what it means to hold a microphone in the service of something bigger than yourself. Dory spent years insisting in whatever room she was in, the people

The importance of starting without a following and just talking

Gabe Leal 2:00

who get dismissed deserve to be heard. When a soccer game left her permanently disabled, and when the medical system's response was to look the other way, she stopped insisting quietly. Together, they created the Othering Podcast, a weekly show that gives a platform to the disabled and LGBTQ communities, featuring new guests every Monday. The name is The Point. The people the world labels as other are the people this show brings to the

Building rapport with followers and viewers through comments

Gabe Leal 2:28

center. Mike carries his own experience with disability into every conversation. Dori carries a calling that predates the podcast by decades. What they have built together is not a show about marginalized communities. It is a show that refuses to let the word marginalized be the last word. Let's get this conversation started. And part of the reason most people stop doing podcasts is because they start understanding the work, the dedication, the time, and the energy that goes into it. Creators,

Overcoming introversion to create engaging content

Gabe Leal 3:09

any new podcasters, any new aspiring podcasters who want to get started and want to do their own podcast. Why should you do a podcast, especially when you're not sure anyone that's listening? You know, what was the first thing for you guys when you started doing the othering podcast to build an audience?

Dory 3:24

I started actually kind of amassing people that had similar disabilities to me, like you know, fellow wheelchair users, crutch users, and those that had chronic pain and various types of things to kind of at first just to create a sense of community, to feel not quite so alone. And that's kind of

Behind-the-scenes of establishing podcast routines

Dory 3:44

where it started. And then I also followed LGBTQ people because I was questioning myself a lot, and adding those people to my list was nice and like it made me feel like okay, I'm not this crazy person that's landed from out of outer space. Um, you know, I'm not hatched from an egg or something like that. And these are universal feelings, and that's kind of where we started with our audience.

Gabe Leal 4:11

So in in so in starting doing this, you had already started amassing a community before you launched your actual podcast. She did her. Okay, so in starting in the the community part first, what what advice would you give someone who is has a great idea for starting a podcast and doesn't know exactly where to begin as far as how to build a community? What was the some of the things that you did that were as the part of the outreach that you did to start building an essentially a following that you would have built in once you started creating a podcast?

Mike 4:51

I'm gonna say to start a podcast, you don't need a following. You don't need to build that community. That's up to you. You can start a podcast with your topic that you want to do and just start talking. Everyone deserves to have their voice out there. As far as your question is concerned, I think it's a matter of just getting out there and just trying to talk to people, asking questions and just connecting. Social media is a huge help with that now. That would be really hard without social media. So just kind of getting out there and not being so afraid and looking into different things.

Dory 5:24

And, you know, talk to the people that you start following and kind of leave comments, nice comments, of course, for them and try to build a rapport that way. And even if they don't answer, because sometimes they just can't, that doesn't mean that they're ignoring you or anything like that. Just sometimes it takes a bit and they will get back to you. And that's partially how I kind of gathered

Initial expectations vs. the reality of viral popularity

Dory 5:47

my community, was I was starting to, as scary as it was, just talk to them in their videos or their posts to kind of start a friendship up.

Mike 5:57

We're actually very introverted people.

Gabe Leal 6:01

And part of where most people probably hit that wall of deciding, hey, look, I don't know if I'm introverted. I really don't like to talk too much. So what was it like for you both of you in the beginning creating a podcast? If you've like, especially if you've never done it before, like developing continuity, the chemistry, the structure of how to actually start developing what would it will eventually be your your template as you start moving forward and recording. What was that like in the beginning? Who does most of the legwork?

Dory 6:35

I would say Mike does the legwork behind the scenes. She does all the talking. Yeah, I'm the talker. Even though I am more of an introverted person, I don't have a problem with just talking because I like making people feel comfortable to not only talk, but just be around me. And sometimes being that boisterous or being silly, you know, just gets people relaxed and able to talk. And that's kind of what I like doing. It

Moving past early frustrations and sticking with it

Dory 7:02

also stems from the fact that I used to be a teacher. And as a teacher, everybody knows that you have to sometimes stand on your head and you know, walk on it at the same time and to get your students interested in anything that you're saying.

Mike 7:17

And I am very, very quiet person in real life. And I did internet radio, well, we both did, like 20 years ago. And I kind of found that I'm not, I don't feel like I'm talking to a lot of people because I don't see them in front of me. So it kind of changes the dynamic there. And with that, I'm able to kind of let go of my fears because I this is just a phone call, as far as I'm concerned. There's not going to be 50, 100,000 people listening to it. It's just you and I. So it doesn't bother me anymore at that point. And then with editing, as far as getting the show all set up and getting our routine down, that took a while. Honestly, I would say we didn't have it really good set up until like maybe a month ago. Yeah. And now I have it where I have things set up where I can just copy and paste the intro in, I can copy and paste the outro in, and I'm done. I don't have to go through all the stuff I was going through before, and it makes it so much easier. And I've learned that shortcuts on the audio editing software

Patience and the importance of consistency

Mike 8:15

to remove silences and stuff like that. And it changed everything.

Gabe Leal 8:19

Yeah. And that's, you know, when people so I'm going to ask this question, what did you think the podcast was going to be before it started? And and kind of how has it sort of evolved as you've gone along, like from what you initially envisioned, what the what it was actually going to be. Because I know I've done a few of these things and they change. Yeah.

Mike 8:39

When we first started, we were in the car and Dory suggested, let's do a podcast about disabled and LGBTQ. And like she had said, she had been on social media for a while. And I said, okay, see if any of your new connections would be interested in it and to get a feel for it out there. And I'm thinking, yeah, we might be able to get five or ten guests. We'll see what we can do. And we went with that. And it was not that, that was not the case. It blew up. We got a lot of interest in it and everything. And it really shocked us. It was a huge surprise.

Dory 9:11

Yeah, I I thought we may might have six months at the most. Because, you know, I was thinking people aren't gonna talk to us. You know, we're nobodies, we're not like these famous people that you hear about doing podcasts. We're just people. And so I figured maybe six months. And yeah, we that was so wrong. It was like very, very wrong. And I want to say that it's a good wrong. And you know, sometimes you have those expectations and you think it's gonna be temporary or it's gonna be like the shortest thing ever. And

How podcasting creates a sense of family and reduces loneliness

Dory 9:47

it isn't, and it's nice, and it just kind of it's like a good scary and it's like shocking at the same time.

Gabe Leal 9:53

Yeah, and I just want to say number one, that you guys have done a lot of the legwork from building down from nothing and realizing that this was going to be a task because most podcasters, there's a belief that most past most podcasts don't get beyond six episodes because people start realizing, you know, this is a lot of work, this is a lot of energy, this is a lot of time that I'm committing to this. So, what was fit for the both of you to move past that in the very beginning, especially for a lot of new podcasters who have this idea that, you know, you guys have the opposite idea. We're not gonna have a lot of people, but there's some people that start, I have this great idea. I know that people will listen and they start and then they realize crickets, it's it's a it's slow

The healing power of sharing stories and community support

Gabe Leal 10:43

traction. So you guys have done, you know, 58 episodes in. That takes a lot. That's a lot of commitment to doing this. So, what would you say to any podcaster who has just started and and is realizing they're frustrated with how it's actually going, what kind of traction they're getting with building an audience or getting people to listen or download or subscribe to their their podcast?

Dory 11:07

I would say that definitely it's gonna take time. Patience is one of the biggest things. Mike is not a patient person. I am on this, at least here, there are other things. And because we've been together for so long, we can kind of help balance each other out. And I think that's where a lot of other podcasters sometimes just don't get that far because they don't necessarily have another person to kind of help pick up some of the slack. And it is daunting at times to you know have to perform in a way and talk, and you don't always feel like it.

Mike 11:43

But you just gotta keep going. And we manage to keep going. Honestly, it's because of the guests. They're scheduled, we have it set up, we have to do it. We've tried other podcasts without guests, just the two of us. And like you said, it lasted maybe six episodes, and we just couldn't keep up because we wouldn't sit down and do it every

The reciprocal nature of hosting and guest interaction

Mike 12:02

week. That's so much harder, in my opinion, when you don't have someone sitting there waiting on you. That really keeps us scheduled.

Gabe Leal 12:09

So there's an accountability on the other end of saying, hey, look, I've made the commitment to this other person who I'm gonna talk to. I have to go through with it, even if I'm like the introverter side of you says, let's not do let's not go down that path. Okay, so Dory, you said something. You said that building the show healed you, so healed something in you that it made you feel less alone. Say say a little bit more about that. What does podcasting give back to the host, not just the audience? What what do you guys get out of?

Dory 12:39

Family, like a sense of you know, added family. And I know that sounds cheesy and crazy, but I really do feel like I am gaining more family members. Coming from a rather big family myself, being away from them sometimes it gets lonely. And you know, being an adult, sometimes adulting sucks. And you just kind of get in your head at a lot of times, and sometimes you feel like, even though you know it's wrong, but you feel like you're completely alone. There's nobody else who knows what you're going through. Nobody else feels the same way you do. And it was hitting me in ways that was ruining my relationship with Mike, with my kids. She was just hanging in the air. Yes, I was.

The significance of representation and voices for marginalized communities

Dory 13:19

I was angry and I was just sad, and my debilitating disability decided to debilitate me. And it was just frustrating. And then when I finally started kind of reaching out on social media for our podcast, and I started talking to these people and looking at them in wheelchairs or whatever they were using and still going to work and you know, sharing their hardships. And I felt like, okay, if they can do it, I can do it. And then when I actually talked to them, it was like releasing this huge weight off of me and realizing physically, mentally, all of that in that moment, I really am not alone.

Gabe Leal 14:05

I think I think you've hit on something that a lot of new podcasters don't realize. They think just because they're talking to people or they're interviewing people that there's not something that's reciprocal back to you. And it's

The role of humor and lightness in podcast content

Gabe Leal 14:20

and it's something that is healing in terms of, hey, look, I now have you have a platform now to express, to share, and you have people who are listening that your story or what you're talking about or who you're interviewing will resonate with them. So it brings it back around full circle. I love that answer.

Mike 14:39

We try very hard to make it conversational and make it more personal and not like uh interrogation on them or anything like that. So we try to give them that very safe, comfortable feeling. And that's a lot of personal.

Dory 14:54

Part of that safe feeling is that you got to share a little bit of yourself too. If you're asking people to talk to you, tell me your fears or or your what makes you happy, or how did you do X, Y, and Z, you also have to kind of share a little bit of yourself. That's also where the healing takes place too, is by sharing myself. And they're not saying, Oh my god, what's wrong with you? And they're like instead saying, I understand, I do that too. That makes a huge difference. And understanding, like, you're not the only person that didn't talk much, but would talk a lot during class time, or that you know, would wear mismatched clothes because it just felt right. And hearing other people say, I did that too, that is where the connection comes in. And that's where you benefit from giving a little of yourself.

Gabe Leal 15:44

Both of you, um, you pull a lot of your guests from the communities that you're used

Setting boundaries to avoid burnout

Gabe Leal 15:49

to talking to and talking about. And you know, a lot of the a lot of the people that are in your community, they're the new, they're always in the news, it's it's always in legislation, it's in other people's stories. What is it, what does something like creating a podcast do for someone to hear a voice that sounds like theirs in their earbuds? What do you think that does for them, the people that are listening to your show?

Mike 16:11

It does what Dory just explained, does what it did to Dory. Just makes them feel less alone. It really helps them feel like they're not weird or unusual and that they are just a normal human like everyone else, even though they may be disabled, or unfortunately it's the case on the LGBTQ spectrum that you're considered weird and unusual. Shouldn't be that way. But just hearing other people talk about it, knowing that you're like everyone else, and knowing that you're just a regular human and you're normal, I think it's extremely appealing

Cost-effective tools and strategies for starting on a budget

Mike 16:44

and satisfying for some for a guest or a listener.

Dory 16:52

And we make we try to make everybody laugh. And you know, they they always say you get those stickers that say laughter is the best medicine, and it really is, because it makes you th see certain things that have happened in your past or that are currently happening happening and be able to laugh at it, it certainly do you like schedule out ahead like how many guests you want to have on, or is it like a for for you both a week by week thing, or you know, is it are you guys planners, or are you just like we're gonna just fly by the seat of our pants?

Mike 17:26

We're planners, yeah. We're both get the guests, like I said, through social media. For the most part, they come to us, we put out a couple of posts looking for guests, and then as I schedule them, we put them in about four different

Promotion tactics: social media, internet radio, and guest appearances

Mike 17:39

calendars to make sure we don't forget, which is a big one. Then I think I have a big problem with saying no, and that's something I would not recommend for upcoming podcasters, but I say yes to guests and I keep putting them in as soon as I can. So I end up kind of filling up the calendar, maybe more than I should have. So we end up batch recording a whole lot ahead of time, like almost as many are recorded that aren't out as already released. So we're organized with them, but yeah, I do too many. We do about three a week and we release two a week. So we're way ahead of the game.

Gabe Leal 18:15

Well, that's interesting because that what that's one of the one of the things that I want to touch on. Because what kind of boundaries when you're starting a podcast, do you say that you need to set for yourself so that you don't run into the idea of burnout or again conflict and schedule, things that need to shift and change. So what would you say as far as someone who comes to you and says, hey, I'm starting a podcast, I want to do five a week? What would you say to them?

Dory 18:41

I would say don't. But it also depends on your personality. If you are a fly by the seat of your pants type of person, there's gonna be some things that you're gonna have to write down, you're gonna have to schedule, but at the same time, go with that flow because it has to fit you. It can't be what you imagine, you know, a corporate would want or something like that. It has to literally fit how you are in your life. Because if it doesn't fit you, you're not gonna want to do it, no matter how many people you have booked. You're

Common mistakes new podcasters make and how to avoid them

Dory 19:11

not gonna feel up to doing much of anything because it doesn't fit you know fit in your life.

Mike 19:16

Make sure it's something you love. That's how we can do this. We love doing it. We do love it. We love talking to the people, we love meeting everyone. So through a week doesn't feel like a chore to us. We look forward to it. And last year in November, December, we said November 15th to January 2nd, we're gonna take off for the holidays. You know how many episodes we recorded in that amount of time. We probably had 10, 15 episodes recorded in that amount of time because people kept coming to us and I couldn't say no. I'm like, yeah, well, we'll get you in. I don't want you to wait till January.

Gabe Leal 19:48

You can have November. That that that leads me into um the next part of developing your podcast now. How do you guys start the idea of promotion? Because that's almost just as important as creating it, recording it, and then doing the editing. How do you how what would you suggest? What channels can you start out that are easy for a lot of new podcasters who have no idea once they get into it and they say, okay, I've created it, I I I got it on my distribution channels. Come listen to it. Like what what are some of the things you would tell people to say, hey,

Encouraging guests to promote their episodes

Gabe Leal 20:27

have a more ideal plan as far as how you promote?

Mike 20:30

I think that's one of the hardest parts of having a podcast, to be honest, because you can promote it to 2,000 people and you might get one listener out of those 2,000. It's so few and far between. But my answer is talk about it any chance you get. Talk about it on all the social media from Facebook, Instagram, threads, whatever you got. Talk about it, talk about it, talk about it. And then something we did, this may not be for everyone, but we actually got um approached by an internet radio station near the beginning of our podcast to air our podcast on their station at the time. It was once a week. Now it's four times for that station. But that right there is excellent promotion. And by doing

Overcoming discomfort with hearing your own voice

Mike 21:13

that, I ended up reaching out to others. And so now we're on a total of three different internet radio stations, and that's another great way to do promotion. And doing this, being on other people's podcasts and guesting on other podcasts. I think we've been on 10 or 11 since we started in May of last year, just talking and getting to know people and getting our voices out there.

Gabe Leal 21:35

That's uh that's a big part of it for a lot of creators who go down this path is simply saying the promotion part because a lot of people feel kind of yucky in self promotion, saying, Hey, listen to me, listen to me, listen to me, listen to me. But it's also the idea of why you started is so that you can talk and have a place and a platform to share. What do you what do you feel most people get wrong when? When they start a podcast, what what do you think that they probably it's probably one of the biggest mistakes that you've either heard of or read about of people when they get started in creating a podcast?

Mike 22:11

Because I think people expect a higher number of listeners than you're going to have in the first month.

Dory 22:17

I think that a lot of time unless you're that the first things that I think that some get wrong is that they don't chair, they don't talk about it, and they don't actually ask their guests to promote themselves too. Yes, that's a big one.

Gabe Leal 22:36

That's a golden one that that a lot

Technical tips for editing and batching recordings

Gabe Leal 22:39

of people actually absolutely miss on when they have somebody on and say, Hey, by the way, could you just share it with your socials or you know, kind of do the cross-promotion thing?

Mike 22:49

I think I'm actually kind of annoying about that at this point. Really, really push my guest to do the self-promotion or the promotion. And what's funny about that is like you said, I was scared to do that in the beginning. I had a friend, I guess I still have a friend, the same friend, that is a podcaster and his is doing like really well, like monetized and everything, really, really well. And I just flat out asked him, is it okay to ask a guest to promote their episode? He's like, Yeah, you should always do that.

Gabe Leal 23:17

So now I do it. Here's another one that I hear that a lot of podcasters kind of have a problem with. And I know this is the medium that we're talking about and recording yourself, but they have a hard time listening to their own voice.

Speaker 1 23:30

Yes.

Gabe Leal 23:30

So, how do you move past that the first few times? Because if you've never done it before, if you've never had an interview with anybody, it is sort of weird to go back and listen to yourself and say, Man, I sound terrible.

Mike 23:43

So I'm gonna give the funny answer first. Yeah. So, like I said, 20 years ago, we had the internet radio station, and when I was doing that, all the ladies, all the girls that was listening would say my voice is just so wonderful and dreamy and great. And that boosted my ego enough to where I felt comfortable with my voice. Because before that I hated it. But because all the girls liked it, I I got comfortable on it.

Dory 24:05

Yeah, I was told that I had a great voice for phone sex operators, and so I I just kind of like, okay, thank you. And I still don't like listening to my voice a lot of times. Yeah, that's partially why he does the editing. And I get it that sometimes it's just like it's nerve-wracking listening to your own voice or listening even to what you have to say, because it's like you already know what it what it is. I would say that don't listen to it immediately after you've finished. Let it get a little cold so that when you go look at it again to edit it and such, you're not focused so much anymore on your voice. You're focusing on what was said. And I know that sounds difficult, but it really isn't. Because once you start just focusing on what was said and does it flow right as you're editing, you're gonna ignore your own voice.

Mike 24:55

And remember that the listener is there to hear you. So whether you like it or not, the listener does. Right. Or they wouldn't be there.

Gabe Leal 25:02

I like that. Um, I'm like you, Mike. I was very acclimated to listening to my voice. So when I started getting into this, I was like, I'm fine with it. It it doesn't bother me. I had more problem watching myself. Me too. That's why we don't record audio or video. Yeah, so that's what I have like. Let me start with this medium of doing the audio part first, because I can listen to myself. I just I just have a hard time looking at myself sometimes.

Dory 25:30

I don't like listening, looking at myself, and I sometimes will sit there and end up staring at myself. And I'm like not paying attention because I'm spacing out because I'm too focused and staring at myself, looking ridiculous in my my my mind. And it takes away from the show. I think in our case, partially, you know, we don't like to do video is because of that. And we want people to come to us and feel relaxed, not feel like they have to get their hair perfectly done or wear the right outfit. And you I want you as you.

Gabe Leal 26:06

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. That's and that's what I would rather have as somebody just to be themselves real and authentic and have to put on a performance. Like that's I don't think you're getting to get the best out of the people out of people when you interview them. So, as far as the technical side, this is probably where

Managing workload with batch recording and simple tech solutions

Gabe Leal 26:23

we'll lean a little bit more on Mike. What were some of the beginning things that were very frustrating for you in learning the process of how to actually edit a podcast and what you in your head would realize or think this sounds good?

Mike 26:38

Luckily, I had some help because of my past and internet radio. So getting the setup wasn't that hard. Like we have a soundboard and microphones and everything. That wasn't too bad. When it came to the editing, in the beginning, I would listen to every the whole thing from beginning to end, normal speed, and I would go through deleting the different coughs, or not coughs, but the ums and ahs. I would delete the silences one at a time. And I realize and I would like at the beginning, we have promotions for the radio stations we're on, or at least two of them. And I would put each one of those in individually, then put our intro in individually. And over time I realize there's buttons that do that for you. And then I can just create like a beginning file that has all the ads and the intro in one file, put that in, and it makes it I probably saved an hour of time with how I do it now, and I can even listen to it at like one and a half to two times speed now when I'm editing, because I'm just looking for really things that are really out there that need to be taken out, not necessarily every um and up, because that's human. We're all gonna do that. Some of those are okay.

Gabe Leal 27:47

Yes, in context, they work where they're supposed to, right?

Mike 27:51

I don't have to remove every single one of them. Technically speaking, in the beginning, we were going for free. We didn't have much money to start this. So we had microphones from the old days, we had the soundboard from the old days. We didn't want to pay a bunch for something like software like Riverside and all those others. So we went with Google Meets, which is free on Google, and we went with like WavePad and Audacity for editing because it's free. So we tried to do it as free as we could. And of course, you got to pay for some stuff to get it out there.

Gabe Leal 28:22

But of course. And that's what I that's where uh you you already took you, kind of already went down that path of like what the expectation is as far as financially committing yourself to creating a podcast. I'm someone who's very much like yourself. I try to find the most inexpensive ways, or especially for podcasters, because I realize that many of them in the beginning don't know what they're doing. Number one. Number two, the cost involved, and they they they think of this astronomical number, like, oh, I gotta have professional mic, because they it's comparatively how they see themselves to other creators and they go, Oh my god, they have this nice mic, they have all this nice lighting, they have all this other stuff. I don't know if I can do that

Handling no-shows and scheduling conflicts

Gabe Leal 29:02

yet. But I I like the fact that you're like, hey, look, I had to learn the freeway because I think that's that's part of the process. It's learning how to develop your systems. What were some of the what were some of the things that in your budget? Yeah, so what were some of the things that you had to shift and change um to make a system that would work for yourselves so that you could create and process three to four uh podcasts at a time? Because I I struggled in the beginning with just doing one. So I can't imagine what it's like doing three or four. So, what were some of the shortcuts or things that you put into place for yourselves so that it allowed you to do the things like one of the ones you mentioned? Of course, that most podcasters are unfamiliar with is batch recording. So, like, what are those sessions like when you get started? And how do you maximize your time so that you again so you don't find yourself on the edge of feeling tired to start off that we're techies?

Dory 30:02

We were like, you know, born in the tech world basically. Our parents were techies, we are techies, and yet we could not figure out some of the simplest things to do because we're techies and we were used to the hard stuff. So going simple was difficult. And I I want to start with that. But then I would say because of our neurodivergence that we discovered through talking on this podcast and through therapy, Mike gets bored easy, like real easy. So, what better way to give him something to do than for him to edit? And he gets out of my hair. I'm able to do what I want to do, read whatever it is that I'm interested in doing, and it keeps me from like trying to strangle him. And it works. We get a great product, he's alive, I'm not in jail, and you know, what better way could you do that?

Mike 30:54

Yeah, what should we say? So, what you started to talk about in the beginning there for new podcasters, there are really good cheap microphones out there, like USB microphones. You can get one for like 60 to 80 dollars that are plenty for a podcast. You don't need the $300 sure microphones and brand new ones. I have a fancy one, but you don't need that to get started.

Dory 31:19

No.

Mike 31:20

She has like four different ones that she's bought since we started in the last year because we've had lots of different things.

Dory 31:25

Now I've got a good one, and it's like my baby, so this one's gonna work. There's always gonna be problems. Be prepared for that, definitely. And when recording, be prepared for you know, mess ups. Sometimes internet is going to say, not today, and you know, things happen. Um just be be prepared for that and don't, you know, stress about it.

Gabe Leal 31:50

It's okay. Just fix it and move on. So that that brings another question to mind. So when you have a guest and you've booked them, and then there are a no-show, what are some of the things that you kind of

Vetting guests and avoiding difficult interview dynamics

Gabe Leal 32:05

do to say I have I've I've planned for this time. Do you guys say, Oh, let's just record a solo podcast, just us talking? Or do you just call it a day, pack it in and say, okay, you know, if especially if you haven't heard anything from the guest? Have you have you ever had that happen to you?

Mike 32:23

It's very frustrating. Because, like I said, we batch record so much, we don't have to worry about episodes coming out and having to fill that spot. We've got it taken care of. We've set that time aside specifically for the guest to be on the show, and we've taken the time out of our day and everything, and to not show, not let us know or anything. It's frustrating. We understand shit happens, but yeah, it's frustrating. If you cancel beforehand, let us know. We'll happily reschedule you. That's not a problem at all. Even if it's an hour before the show, we'll still do it. But just yeah.

Dory 33:00

And it's I think it's frustrating because the two of us are also disabled. And so, you know, we try to set things up so that it's accommodating not just for us, but for other people that are disabled as well, so that they're able to be there and you know, however, we can help them. And it kind of just gets frustrating when somebody doesn't respect your time. And again, we understand life happens. You know, sometimes you can't immediately get to us, but try to get to the person that you have scheduled with. You know, it's just as frustrating as like if you're going to a doctor's office and an emergency happens, you're sitting there for hours. And then they tell you at the end of the day, after you've sat there for hours, oh, by the way, you're not going to be seen. It's kind of that feeling.

Mike 33:47

Yeah. At what point as a host do you give up on waiting for them? Do you wait five minutes, ten minutes? Sometimes they're a little late. That's always a struggle too, figuring out exactly how long you wait before you.

Dory 33:58

I say the teacher wait, you know, when I was in high school, we would give the teacher like 10 minutes. And if they didn't show up in 10 minutes, we were out of class. So I would say, you know, set a boundary and make sure that you try to stick to it. Sometimes it's hard, and you want to make sure that you're, you know, giving some leeway for people for certain people. But at the same time, you can have that boundary of past this time, no matter what happened, I'm done for the day or, you know, for the week or whatever it is that you're doing, and we'll pick it up next time.

Gabe Leal 34:32

Yeah. So have you ever had a guest that was very difficult to deal with? And what kind of betting process do you guys have in place as far as who you're inviting on whenever you have guests? Is do you just like, hey, come on, or is it let's just at least exchange emails or have a, you know, some people have a pre-show consultation where they'll sit down with the guests and see if they're the right fit for you.

Mike 34:56

We have a pretty simple laid-back process. Usually, always it's me. They'll either email, DM us on social media, whatever, and I'll talk to them to the point that I know that they're either disabled or a part of the LGBTQ community. Or both. Or both, because that's one absolute must-have, or a strong advocate. So I'll just kind of make sure I know in general what's about them, and then I'll book them. And before the show, we ask them to kind of write their introduction for us. And that way we kind of see the direction they want the interview to go. We see what they want to talk about, what they don't want to talk about, and we kind of guide the interview from that intro that they're just.

Gabe Leal 35:39

And as I was gonna say, and as far as guests who have been a very difficult to uh kind of navigate the uh interview with, you had a few those.

Dory 35:52

There have been some some that have completely commandeered the entire thing. We didn't get a word in edgewise, we couldn't ask anything because as soon as we said hello, they just started and it was just rambling, and it was frustrating because it's like I want them to talk, but it's a show in a way, and it's a conversation, and it's supposed to be a conversation between like friends, and even friends sometimes shut up a little bit so that you can talk about it. And so there's there's that one, and then there's also the ones where they don't talk at all, and you ask an open-ended question, and it's yes, that's it. And you're going to have to, I guess you could say, put on that mask,

Choosing the right co-host and maintaining strong collaboration

Dory 36:38

be polite, and find a way to fill in with um ad libs or you know, um a paragraph or a whole dissertation or two, depending on the person.

Mike 36:54

I always say if she weren't here, our episodes would be about five minutes long. But I I can't talk enough. She does all the talking, she can fill in those gaps. And we also have had issues with language barrier before, talking to people from overseas that was either hard to understand or they couldn't understand us well. And that was a real challenge as well. In fact, that one actually was never able to be released. It's definitely something we're to future podcasters to look at, think about it and make sure you do vet your guests before you bring them on and look into it.

Gabe Leal 37:28

So, what would what would you suggest now that you've done this enough times and you have the experience when a guest does come on like that and they want to commandeer and hijack the whole conversation? How is you host navigate a way to still maintain control over the conversation? Pretty bad about that.

Dory 37:48

I would not say we're actually. I would say thinking back, you want to kind of because it's not live, so that it it allows you to then kind of interject and say sorry, can I say something and you know get in there again? You know, be polite as possible because they're also taking time out of their day to talk to you.

Gabe Leal 38:06

Absolutely.

Dory 38:07

And you want to be respectful back and forth. That doesn't mean that stuff may not be, you know, happening behind the scenes, and there are possible fair share of drama, but you want to make sure that you're staying calm and just okay, I get what you're saying, but let me get in here. I want to say something here. And you know, we're we're bad at that, but that's what I would say for future um podcasters.

Gabe Leal 38:35

Yeah, to get to to get to understand that there are going to be situations that you find yourself in where you don't know what that person's going to kind of do when you allow them to come on. So here's one more, and then we'll start wrapping up. So I know that you are together and you're doing a podcast together, but what would you say to someone who's wanting to start a podcast, but they also want to bring on a co-host? What are say some of the two things that you have to have to maintain a good relationship and chemistry as co-host of a podcast, as far as like who's gonna control the questioning or how you know who leads the conversation, who's gonna do all the front end or the back-end work. How does that get, would you say, needs to be discussed before you decide, I'm gonna go beyond just doing a solo podcast, I'm gonna have a co-host along with me.

Mike 39:30

I think one thing is like

The story behind the Othering Podcast’s name and mission

Mike 39:32

especially for a podcast like ours, you should make sure you have the same vision, the same vision going into it, have the same beliefs. Don't start a podcast like ours and you hate disabled people. I mean, that wouldn't work as a co-host.

Dory 39:45

And, you know, not only I'd say take your time finding that person because you want it to not only have that chemistry so that you can play off each other very well, like you always see on newscasts and things like that, but you also want to be able to be around this person for potentially hours at a time and multiple times a week, depending upon how often you record. If you can't stand that person, it's not gonna work. And you don't want to be the first podcaster that's now thrown in jail on a lifetime sentence because you had to kill your co-host. At least in the headlines, it seems like it. But you don't want to be that person unless that's your idea, by all means, as long as it's not me, go for it. You want to make sure that you're vetting your co-hosts. Make sure that not only are they on the same page, but understand where you're coming from too. It shouldn't be just some random person, and it doesn't necessarily have to be family either.

Mike 40:47

And talk to them before you press record. Make sure you can have a conversation with them and they kind of understand how you operate. Like when I did internet radio, it was not solely with her. I did it, I owned the station with two other people that were not living with me, not they were just incompatible. It ended up not working. A big thing was we talked about we talked outside of the podcast. We had a relationship besides just being co-hosts, and that helped a lot. Yeah, with Dory and I, because we're married, we've already got that rapport, so we we know how each other operate.

Gabe Leal 41:25

Well, that's good, but that's good information because there's I see all the time on social media where people will put, hey, I want to start a podcast, but I want to co-host. So that you know, they're you know they're they're gonna be searching for someone. And you know, one of the things it's important, like you said, is having the conversations, and you you have to be able to be around this person for humorous, copious amounts of time.

Mike 41:48

That would scare me going in blind, just some stranger I picked up on the internet. That would be nerve-wracking.

Gabe Leal 41:54

Yes. So here's the fun part of the show now. We get to talk about and promote your podcast and what you do

Long-term vision and staying committed to advocacy

Gabe Leal 42:01

because it is important to not only be able to have guests on and teach other podcasters, but then also talk a little bit more and promote about what it is that you know both of you do and why it matters so much, not only to yourselves, but then to your communities as well. So tell me a little bit about the othering podcast and what what you've not only done in the past, but what do you see for it moving forward in the past?

Dory 42:26

Let's start with the name. Othering podcast is because growing up as an obvious not white person, I know shocking, but sometimes people are. But being felt and feeling that I wasn't really there. I wasn't, you know, fitting in with people. I was always I was friends with everybody, but not really having best friends, and just kind of being pushed to the side, feeling like the token person so that people can say, see, I'm not racist. I'm friends with her, is how it always felt. And that feeling makes you feel like you're othered, that you're just not the mainstream. And that's where the name came from. And I hated that feeling, and I don't want anybody else to ever feel that way. So I wanted to advocate and create an experience for people to share who they are so that they are viewed as humans. That, you know, it doesn't matter what you look like, it doesn't matter what may be quote unquote wrong. You're still a human. You still, you know, have thought thoughts and feelings. And what are those? And how have you been othered? How did you overcome it and things like that? And making it so that there's other children out there that when they listen with their parents, they're not you know, they're realizing that, oh my gosh, I feel this way, I'm not alone. Other people have gone through this same exact thing and they survived. And sometimes it's not enough to know that, you know, not everybody dies in you know, childhood or anything like that. And you realize that, but you're still in those teen or young adult thoughts and feelings of I'm just alone. But hearing it, now you know you're not.

Mike 44:10

And she was pretty much the whole reason this started. And this was all all on Dory. But as she kind of mentioned the name in

Inspiring others to start and sustain their podcast journey

Mike 44:20

my mind, I'm thinking like promotionally speaking, marketing, and just technically I'm thinking about it. And I'm like, that's a perfect name. That sounds good. It's interesting. People are gonna wonder what it means, stuff like that. So I kind of went into it on it with a different view. Of course, I agree with her beliefs and everything, but yes, I went into it more with how do we make this successful and how do we push it out there kind of mentality? And I think that really helped us work together to build the podcast it is.

Gabe Leal 44:52

Now that you've gone from where you started to this point in the journey, do you see for yourselves a point where you say, okay, we've done enough, let's walk away, or is it something that you can decide, you know what, I'm just gonna do this for as long as I possibly can because it's fun. I love doing it, it's super passionate. Because I I I I'm just somebody who likes to have a finite point on certain things. There's some things that I do I do continuously, but there are other things where I know that life changes, life transitions. So I I do kind of have a mindset of I have to have an endpoint somewhere.

Mike 45:32

At the beginning, I said that we can keep going because we have guests. That's why we have to keep going. For one, we've got episodes out coming out until like mid-July, something like that. And then we've got guests scheduled three times a week up through May, into May. So there's no stopping anytime soon. And I'm really happy about that.

Dory 45:53

I have no intention because there's always going to be some marginalized community that needs a voice. And as long as I'm alive and as long as we keep getting marginalized, I want their voices out there because I find it hard to look somebody in the face when you've heard their story and you know their name, you know what they went through, and say, Oh yeah, you deserve to die. It's not that easy.

Gabe Leal 46:18

Yeah.

Dory 46:18

But it's great and easy when they're abstract. And so I want to put a a story behind those faces that in a lot of horrific regimes tend to be the first ones to be murdered.

Mike 46:33

So in the end, we're doing this to make a difference. If we make a difference in one person's life, that makes those happy as could be. If we get lots of listeners, that's an added bonus. If we make money off of it, that's a bonus. That's not why we're doing it. We want to make the difference, we want to try to make the change and I love that.

Gabe Leal 46:50

Well, hopefully one day I'll come back and you guys have like 700 episodes.

Dory 46:54

Yeah.

Gabe Leal 46:55

I remember when we were Ettie Beaty and we only had like, you know, 20, 30, 40 because that's part of the reason that I want to inspire, just kind of like what you you just mentioned, is I want to inspire other people to give them the tools to start building and sharing their voice. But I also want to be able to give them the least amount of resistance and getting started because I want them to I want it to be a prolonged thing. I want it to be be able to share something and continually push themselves to do more, to do more, because they start realizing more and more as they do it that that has more significance and meaning behind what they're creating. And that's one of the things that I as I progress in doing this is I want to ask other podcasters like what has been the discipline or the execution that has sustained you to continue to do it for you guys. It sounds like it's passion. Yes not to do this. So I I want to say thank you again, Mike and Dory, for taking the time to do this. I really do appreciate it. The podcast will be launching April 2nd. I'm very much like you, Mike. I I it's hard to say no to some people, so I already have I have 30 interviews lined up here within the next uh three weeks. And we will be yeah, I'll be um releasing them twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So thank you again, though. I love guys what you both shared, what you continue to do. And um eventually I will have a recap show where I bring back so I would love to reach out to you because you are officially you are the first. Thank you. Thank you again. You guys have been awesome. I do appreciate it. Thanks so much for spending this time with us on the podcast about podcasting. New episodes drop every week, so make sure you're subscribed so you never miss a thing. To connect with Mike and Dory or follow along on their podcasting journey, check out the Othering Podcast at otheringpodcast.com. We'll see you next week.

Speaker 5 48:52

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